Umm clearly you guys have never dated a UM......
Norstroms aint gonna cut it.......
Quieting down... Something special
- Thread starter TheReverend
- Start date
Umm clearly you guys have never dated a UM......
Norstroms aint gonna cut it.......
Nektonic
Veteran
Umm clearly you guys have never dated a UM......
Norstroms aint gonna cut it.......
I just date homeless girls. It is so much cheaper to go on a date with hobo girl than it is with girl-next-door.
G
G.P.
Guest
In my visual opinion it is 3 times better if not more. Especially with the ability to upgrade as you grow with dual 4:4:4 out. The difference I've seen so far is like comparing 720p footage to 1080p footage, are the both HD sure, but one has a hell of a better picture when blow up. Compare it to Arri Alexa footage, its not that far off and thats huge considering the Alexa is $45,000 MORE than the F3. That speaks for itself. If anything this is not competition for AF100, this is a stab at the Arri Alexa considering they both have very similar options, S35 imager, ability for 4:4:4 Slog, sxs recording as high end "proxies" for offline, VERY low noise level, these cameras are about pared up to battle, the only thing the ALEXA seems to have on its side is its build quality, and maybe its true professional leader following which are used to shooting with Arri film cameras. Lets face it, if the F3 was built to look just like the ALEXA and kept ALL the same specs I think the people wanting to BUY Alexa would more over go towards the F3.
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True, the price performance barrier seems to be shifting quickly these days. I would feel better if I knew what Canon had up their sleeve. I know historically they are late to the game, but somehow I think they will come with a digital cinema response sooner rather than later. I just find it hard to believe they will step aside and cede this large format sensor trend to Panasonic and Sony for the next year or so.
I think some may be getting their cages rattled a little to easily. It seems obvious the AF100 is going to be a superb tool for the job. I appreciate being able to follow the progress of the AF100 and certainly hope that they don't shut forums like this out of the process in the future.
pix2pixels
Well-known member
Rolf Silber
Veteran
Nobody in his right mind would buy an Alexa but rent it. And the same will hold true to a lesser extend for the F3. At least I do not know many people who would invest about 50 to 100 K in a camera system and equipment if they are not a cine rental house or really produce mid-budget stuff on an at least weekly or daily base. There are certain factors in economy to be considered too, me thinks.
And apart from certain specs: Yes, it is indeed of great importance that a camera is also designed as a real movie camera and that it can easily be integrated in the work flow on a set. So the Alexa (and RED) will very probably stay in the top class and the F3 may compete with it in certain areas. And if we throw the AG-AF into this we are, again, in danger of comparing a Ferrari F1 to a Alfa Romeo Spider: Both (preferably) red, both fast, both Italian .... but have a look at the purchasing price, the costs for gasoline and maintenance......
But, as Barry put it: Probably you may get a VSUM more easily to the place you want with a Ferrari...
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Duke M.
Veteran
Your victoria secret underware model analogy reminds me of the clip (I think it was Philip Bloom's but it might have been Emmanuel's) where he's brushing his teeth, telling his lover to get out of bed, and it turns out its the AF100 tucked in the covers. Classic. 
If they made the Canon XF300 with a bigger sensor, it would be right up there since it already has 4.2.2 and 50Mbps and 60p. Maybe that will be the XF500.
rogar-Smoke(DBG):
If they made the Canon XF300 with a bigger sensor, it would be right up there since it already has 4.2.2 and 50Mbps and 60p. Maybe that will be the XF500.
rogar-Smoke(DBG):I don't understand all of this. Certainly if you are comparing the AGF100 to the F3, it's obvious which one you would buy, and which one you would rent. This seems like a straw man to me. Wouldn't the NXCAM be a better and more fair comparison?
I don't know, sometimes I just feel such a hard sell going on here on this site around the Panny camera, it really makes me wonder...The argument "just don't worry about that, that's in the future, buy this now!" really strikes me as a bit suspect.
Given the same Codec and some fairly strong and reliable competitors, I'll take an S35 sensor over a 4/3" any day of the week. We don't have all the specs yet on the Sony, but honestly this new offering from them gives a really legitimate reason for folks to take a pause and think twice before investing...I know I have and I don't see how that makes me a pixel peeper or a kid.
I don't know, sometimes I just feel such a hard sell going on here on this site around the Panny camera, it really makes me wonder...The argument "just don't worry about that, that's in the future, buy this now!" really strikes me as a bit suspect.
Given the same Codec and some fairly strong and reliable competitors, I'll take an S35 sensor over a 4/3" any day of the week. We don't have all the specs yet on the Sony, but honestly this new offering from them gives a really legitimate reason for folks to take a pause and think twice before investing...I know I have and I don't see how that makes me a pixel peeper or a kid.
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Barry_Green
Moderator
Of course it would. The NXCAM is the obvious competitor to the AF100. The F3, in Sony's own words, is aimed at the Red One.
Who's doing the hard selling? Most of us are saying "hey, if it doesn't do what you want, don't buy it." If you mean by the end users, I saw an insane level of "hard sell" going on with the 7D and 5D and t2i. It's like if anyone even asked any question about any other product, a horde of folks would come storming in to tell them they're nuts if they buy anything OTHER than a DSLR. Thankfully that seems to have ebbed now.
Don't know what you're referring to there. My stock answer is always: never buy anything, unless you NEED it. And if you need it, then buy the best that's available at the time, and go put it to work.
What would be "in the future"?
All other things being equal, that would likely be an advantage for folks. But we have no idea what other things will or won't be equal. We have no idea what features it will have, or won't have. The one thing I can assure you is: there is no free lunch. If it does everything the AF100 does, and more -- then it will cost more. Likely it will do some things the AF100 doesn't, and it won't do some things the AF100 does. That's how Sony and Panasonic have always danced in the past, and there's no reason to expect them to change their style now. There will absolutely, unquestionably, and without a doubt be compromises. It's the buyer's job to determine which set of compromises best suits their needs.
If you don't need it now, why would you be buying anything at all? And if you do need it, how can waiting possibly be good? And, finally -- if you get it now, and decide later you want something else, that's what ebay is for. And if you can't make the money back between now and whenever the Sony comes out (they said "mid-2011") then ... you probably shouldn't be buying a $5,000 pro camera in the first place, y'know?
If anybody's feeling pressured into buying something, then they should take a break from the site and from whatever marketing they're reading. None of these products are "must-have" or "must-buy". They'll all be here when you're ready.
I don't know about you, but as I see it, being in this business is like mixing a crap shoot with a roller coaster ride. Making the money back on an investment has never been guaranteed, however that does not mean that a business shouldn't continue to re-invest. Smart businesses do, but they also think wisely and long and hard before they make each next move.
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I'm getting pretty excited about the prospect of the AF100. Being a 7D user I like the fact of it being small, incognito and interchangeable lenses. But the fact that it can only record 12min clips and proper audio recording gives me nightmares, I need a camera that is both cinematic and easy to use in a corporate setting. The AF100 sounds like the first to do it, at a price point I can afford and use many of the DSLR support equipment I've purchased. Hopefully the canon lenses will easily fit on the af100 ( or with one adapter).
I realize that Sony is going after a different market. And while many on the forum here think that everything they make is for 'us' and 'our' price point, there are people out there that have 20k to spend on the smallest items. I remember walking into AbelCine ( a great store in Burbank) and checking out the new manfrotto tripods, debating with the guy the merrits of a 504 and is it worth $400 for the head upgrade (feeling like a big spender). Meanwhile, next to me was this guy who just casually walked into the store and placed a down payment for $50,000 worth of lenses !!! Made my purchase seem small and insignificant. Was my purchase small, no. Not to me. But there are those on another level who don't do indie no budget film making.
I realize that Sony is going after a different market. And while many on the forum here think that everything they make is for 'us' and 'our' price point, there are people out there that have 20k to spend on the smallest items. I remember walking into AbelCine ( a great store in Burbank) and checking out the new manfrotto tripods, debating with the guy the merrits of a 504 and is it worth $400 for the head upgrade (feeling like a big spender). Meanwhile, next to me was this guy who just casually walked into the store and placed a down payment for $50,000 worth of lenses !!! Made my purchase seem small and insignificant. Was my purchase small, no. Not to me. But there are those on another level who don't do indie no budget film making.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Adapters exist now for Canon lenses. Birger is going to be introducing an adapter that provides electronic control of Canon lenses.
Ain't that the truth. We have all levels here, those who are just starting out, those who consider $200 a lot of money, and those who won't even get out of bed for under $2500/day. The market has responded with appropriate products for each level. For some of us, an AF100 is a no-brainer, as it'll pay for itself with one job or a short-term rental. For others of us, it remains an unattainable pipe dream. Then there's other folks who are trying to pick between an Alexa and an Epic...
Rolf Silber
Veteran
Those damn Victoria Secret Models Again!
Yep. Alexa. She really has ways to either torturing your credit card or your fantasies... Sony should call the F3 Yoko, maybe...
derbrocks09
Well-known member
"Sony should call the F3 Yoko, maybe... "
LOL
Hilar!
LOL
Hilar!
ripupthehwy
Well-known member
The AF100 is the best camera to buy because it's NOT a Sony
ripupthehwy
Well-known member
....and if I had $15k to spend I would rent a Red or Alexa and put money towards other support gear. Because I don't believe the finished project (film, video, etc) is going to justify the money thrown towards the F3 when you can get a great product with the AF100 and use the extra money (if you have it) for making your shots/locatons/lighting etc look better. Thats something people are going to notice appreciate more than the finite amount of less noise or slighty sharper image you might have, provided they have an expensive enough monitor to detect it on.
+5
Rip, you make a good point. Something a lot of folks forget is that if your going to bring a camera, in a production scenario, it aint enough. you need other things. Production monitors, Client monitors, even things like a slider Dolley and jib are "standard" equipment now. This is not to say they are free, but they should be available. What really separates you from the crowd is not only your Skills, but the ability to offer an attractive "one stop shop" for camera department.
Personally, im very excited by both the AF100 and the F3. I will probably buy them both. Im in the middle of building a new camera system. This package is being built the "right way". Im spending my money on high quality camera agnostic support gear. Oconnor Tripod, Oconnor Follow Focus, CineDeck, Panasonic 26" Client monitor, Fleshing out my Zacuto system, Schneider Xenar Lenses, An additional Set of CP1's, PROPER CASES FOR EVERYTHING ( so important), and all the cables, hoods, screen protectors, bolts, wires, and batteries i will ever need, a LLC and Insurance. The Goal is to create a "cage" of support gear that has a gap in the middle, that can be filled, for the next 5 years with what ever comes along. Scarlet, RED, F3, F7, AF100 - Af350a, EX9, Green Camera, whatever.... The point being, being able to offer a full complete package, that is worth the day rate for rental, because the producer wont have to go anywhere else for any camera gear. IF buying and AF100 means i have 10,000$ extra room for all the support gear. Then thats the smarter decision. IF i have the money for the F3.... then the F3 is the way to go. IT never hurts having "better" gear.
The ALexa is safe btw. Ive seen footage.... F3 looks great, the Alexa is in a class of its own.