Quick report from XL2 Launch at Vistek

dashwood

Well-known member
I just got back from the XL2 Canadian launch at Vistek. Was anyone else there?

Joe Bogacz from Canon Product Development was the first speaker. He mentioned that he wanted to clear up some misconceptions and speculations on the internet about the XL2 and then went into a lengthy explanation of the negative features of HDV, and the reasons why we are all better off having a really good SD 24P camera for the same price point. I have to say that I totally agree with his argument.

Next, he mentioned how we, in the many discussion groups, talk alot about the main functions of the camera, but the most exciting new features are still "undiscovered."
He mentioned some "undiscovered" features like the programmable focus marks, and zoom marks on the new lens, -3dB = 320ASA, 0dB =400ASA, but he concentrated on the "open-architecture" of the software.
This is apparently the first camera to provide third-party software developers with an SDK. This means that almost all functions of the camera are accessible via the firewire cable, and we could soon see various bits of software that could control the camera for many different uses.
One simple example is the potential ability to "share" presets on the internet the way the high-end Sony and Panavision cameras do. That's cool!

He also talked alot about pixels, "Total Image Control", 24P, XLR inputs, superior Canon optics, etc.
Then... it was time to see the demo reel. What a disappointment!
To be fair, the projector setup was too high (blacks were gray) and it was being played back off of miniDV tape via composite input.
The first vignette was probably the best, but was also the most controlled lighting. The second one shot 30P with a car in Times Square - it looked OK. The third was a "documentary" example in 60i about a piano player. The highlights on the interview looked blown out, which really surprised me for a controlled lighting situation.
Joe talked a bit about the first three examples and then played the rest of the demo. They kept cycling between 24P, 30P and 60i, but I think they would have been better served just doing everything in 24P. They also should have hired some better actors and a pro DP for the demo.

I could see how the knee adjustment was helping out in a "bright window" situation, and the black stretch was maintaining detail in a CSI type night scene, but it was tough to assess the scenes because of the poor execution.

Some other presenters went over some of the other features and third party accessories available, and then Tim Hagan showed us some demo footage of a dragon boat race he shot on an overcast day. A few of the shots looked really good, but he had done alot of speed ramping when he cut it in FCP4, so it was tough to get a feel for the 24P look.

From what I can tell from Tim's footage, the camera and kit lens combo seem to have very good resolving power.

It was late so I didn't get to ask any questions afterwards. Did anyone else?

Tim
 
Re: Quick report from XL2 Launch at Vistek

"then went into a lengthy explanation of the negative features of HDV, and the reasons why we are all better off having a really good SD 24P"

i JUST WANT "HD-24P-16:9"
 
Re: Quick report from XL2 Launch at Vistek

John

Dont forget 3ccd and 4:2:2 compression, unless you just want an uppgraded JVC... ;)
 
Re: Quick report from XL2 Launch at Vistek

And it'd be nice have the above features and still have sdk and then maybe some software guru could write us a way to do slo-mo in the camera and other fun things.
 
Re: Quick report from XL2 Launch at Vistek

Hi,

I worked on Visual C++ for 3 years ,before coming into video, SDK will definately helps you.

but where is SDK

vamshi
 
Re: Quick report from XL2 Launch at Vistek

I think you need to sign a NDA with Canon before they will give you a SDK.

I will elaborate on Joe's comments on HDV. He did mention that Canon is involved in the HDV consortium. This means that they will probably eventually build an HDV camera.
However, Joe makes a few points as to why they did not include HDV in the XL2. This is just from my memory, so please don't quote the following.

First, he said that Canon didn't feel the Mpeg2 codec used in HDV would be the right choice for their user base of the XL series of cameras. He used consumer DVDs as an example and compared "cheaply" encoded DVDs with Criterion series DVDs. The point was that hardware encoding MPEG2 on the fly still isn't as good as it will be in the future. He also said that Canon has never been know to be on the bleeding edge of technology, but instead creates quality product that will serve its users now and into the future.
Secondly, he clarified that the chips being used in Sony's camera (and I'm also assuming JVC's) are not true progressive scan chips, but produce the progressive frames through post-processing. (That is probably why there is only 30P in NTSC, and 25P in PAL.)
Next, he made the point that the current Sony and JVC offerings could be considered "pro-sumer" products, not "pro" products like they consider the XL2. The current HDV offerings would be good for "run and gun" situations for feature documentaries already being shot on other forms of HD.
His final point was lenses. Since the resolution of HD chips is so much higher than SD, the lenses need to have a much smaller circle of confusion to obtain sharp images - hence higher quality and higher cost. Joe politely suggested that, because of the low price point, the current Sony and JVC HDV cameras are using glass more suited to SD photography. To prove the point, he compared the price of pro HD lenses to pro SD lenses.
In conclusion, he basically said that Canon would have needed to put on a lens worth 10 times as much as the camera body to make the resolution worth it - but then you would only have an interpolated 30P, and lossy MPEG2 compression.

I would say that anyone looking to do 24P HD 16x9 cheaply buy a Sony HDV in PAL (25P) and then slow it to 24P in post. Just my opinion.

Tim
 
Re: Quick report from XL2 Launch at Vistek

By the way, another cool feature I forgot to mention at the top is that the "skin detail" function has zebra stripes to identify what areas are being affected.  This means you can dial-in any skin tone or complexion.
 
Re: Quick report from XL2 Launch at Vistek

Hi Tim.

I really wanted to go to this especially that I live almost next to the Berkeley Church. I had to host a fundraiser for a film festival in Regent Park. I walked by and saw the Canon guys wearing their black shirts and all. It looked like a scene from Twister with all the evil guys in there black mini vans driving single file.

I'm shocked that they would have such poor set-up showcasing this camera. Being sponsored by Vistek you'd think they'd have access to every tech toy. I guess you won't be jumping ship and get the XL2 then?
 
Re: Quick report from XL2 Launch at Vistek

Bob, I figured you would have been at Alias for the FCP User's Group meeting.

I am seriously considering the XL2 for my next film. The nice thing is that I could match the gamma curves, and then use each camera for its own strengths. Probably DVX for wideangle stuff, and XL2 for long-lens stuff and handheld.

I'm gonna have to sell my BetacamSP camera before I do anything though!

Tim
 
Re: Quick report from XL2 Launch at Vistek

[quote author=Dashwood link=board=XL2;num=1095398364;start=0#7 date=09/17/04 at 19:19:27]I would say that anyone looking to do 24P HD 16x9 cheaply buy a Sony HDV in PAL (25P) and then slow it to 24P in post.   Just my opinion.
[/quote]
That would be a great idea, but you can't do that, can you? I know the NTSC version doesn't offer any sort of progressive scan, and I'm pretty sure the PAL version won't offer 25P either. Or has there been some announcement to the contrary? That would be *very* interesting!
 
Re: Quick report from XL2 Launch at Vistek

I have havent heard anything about progressive scan on the pal other then the CineFrame mode option which isnt real progressive.

On the NTSC model to quote camcorderinfo.com:
CineFrame24 and 30 Mode This is an attempt by Sony to cater to those independent filmmakers seeking the "film look" with a 24 frames-per-second progressive scan shooting mode. Although the HDR-FX1 does not have a true 24P or 30P filming mode, the CineFrame24 and Cineframe30 modes replicate many of the motion artifacts and the "look" of 24P and 30P, respectively
 
Re: Quick report from XL2 Launch at Vistek

"replicate many of the motion artifacts and the "look" of 24P and 30P"

Sounds pretty lame to me, if the technology is there, why not use it rather than use Canon's ancient frame mode, that's what it pretty much sounds like.
 
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