Questions about using lenses w both 7D & GH1 ...

[Peter J. DeCrescenzo]

(Apologies if there's already a thread about this here; I didn't find it; please post a link if it's here; thanks!)

I'm still learning about still camera lenses & mount types. I don't have a still photography background so I find the cam manufacturers' lens mount abbreviations confusing. I'm primarily interested in shooting mostly video and to a lessor extent some stills.

I'm trying to figure out which lenses (or I guess more specifically, which lenses mount types) could be used with _both_ a 7D _and_ a GH1 using appropriate adapters.

1. Can EF or EF-S mount (for Canon APS-C) be used with a GH1 (Micro 4/3)? In other words, do the adapter(s) exist? Or are these lens mounts incompatible (don't provide full sensor coverage, or don't have rear element clearance) for use with the GH1?

2. Does it make more sense to adapt "full-frame" lenses for use with both the 7D and GH1? If so, which common full frame lens mount type(s) have adapters readily available for both the 7D and GH1?

3. Or, is it "better" for some reason to get lenses & adapters (if required) which work with either the 7D or the GH1, but not try to use one lens mount type with both cams?

I realize that some lenses' "auto" features won't be fully functional with either or both cams. I'm OK with using lenses in full manual mode if that makes it more possible or less expensive for them to be used with both cams. And again, I'm mostly interested in shooting video with these cams, more so than stills.

I hope these questions make sense. Comments welcome.

 

[ydgmdlu]

1. Can EF or EF-S mount (for Canon APS-C) be used with a GH1 (Micro 4/3)? In other words, do the adapter(s) exist? Or are these lens mounts incompatible (don't provide full sensor coverage, or don't have rear element clearance) for use with the GH1?

Almost any lens can be adapted for the GH1, even medium format and large format lenses, because the GH1 doesn't have a mirror box. So the flange focal distance (which is the most basic determinant of whether lenses can be easily adapted or not) is very short, and there will never be clearance issues.

I have an adapter for EF to Micro Four-Thirds. This is because I bought a 5D Mark II first, and I wanted the lenses that I bought for it to work on the GH1. This is where I got it: http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-EOS-lens-...ries?hash=item5189a25c42&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

You can find a cheaper one here (though quality might not be as good): http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-EOS-lens-...ries?hash=item33552c007f&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

2. Does it make more sense to adapt "full-frame" lenses for use with both the 7D and GH1? If so, which common full frame lens mount type(s) have adapters readily available for both the 7D and GH1?

Unless you plan on buying a full-frame camera later, there is no reason why you should get full-frame lenses instead. But the truth is that the best value lenses are old manual ones, which are generally significantly cheaper than new lenses. It makes sense to do this because you won't have autofocus in video mode on the 7D, and autofocus doesn't work for adapted lenses period. And old manual lenses are for full frame anyway, so you won't have to worry when you buy a full-frame camera later.

You can use Nikon F-mount lenses, M42-mount lenses, Pentax K-mount lenses, Olympus OM-mount lenses, and more. In fact, I have lenses in every single one of those mounts (plus one in Pentacon Six, which is medium format).

3. Or, is it "better" for some reason to get lenses & adapters (if required) which work with either the 7D or the GH1, but not try to use one lenses mount type with both cams?

Just do what I do: Buy lenses and adapters for the EF mount, then buy one EF to Micro Four-Thirds adapter. No reason to make things complicated and do anything else.

However, here's a word of warning: The risk of using an adapter is that, if the adapter is not well-made, focus will be mis-calibrated. You might lose infinity focus. When you stack adapters, the risk multiplies. For that reason, you might consider getting separate adapters for the 7D and the GH1.

I realize that some lenses' "auto" features won't be fully functional with either or both cams. I'm OK with using lenses in full manual mode if that makes it more possible or less expensive for them to be used with both cams.

There's an additional consideration: Many modern lenses don't have aperture rings. All Canon EF and EF-S lenses, as well as third-party lenses made for EF/EF-S, don't. Nikon G lenses don't. So unless you buy the expensive new Novoflex adapters with the built-in aperture rings, you won't have control over aperture when using an adapter.

 

[mhood]

There's an additional consideration: Many modern lenses don't have aperture rings. All Canon EF and EF-S lenses, as well as third-party lenses made for EF/EF-S, don't. Nikon G lenses don't. So unless you buy the expensive new Novoflex adapters with the built-in aperture rings, you won't have control over aperture when using an adapter.

Knowing that, why would you want to go EF to 4/3rds? I guess I'm missing something here...

 

[xbourque]

Does your EF to u4/3 adapter let you change the aperture of EF lenses?

Usually EF lenses do not have an aperture ring.

 

[ydgmdlu]

OK, just for clarification, since I forgot to mention this earlier: I don't have EF lenses. All of my lenses so far are non-EF lenses that I use with adapters for my 5D.

 

[ydgmdlu]

Also, if Peter plans to have both a 7D and a GH1, he could buy EF/EF-S lenses and set the aperture on the 7D before putting them on the GH1. Tedious, I know, but it's a solution nonetheless.

 

[Alpha Beta Omega]

I also plan on using lenses both on the GH1 and the 7D. My long term plan has the last year been to invest in FF lenses so if I do want to switch to a FF camera some day I already have lenses. And it's the lenses that cost.
Currently I have a Canon EF 16-35/2.8 and Nikon 35/2.0, 50/1.4 and 85/1.8 and these will cover my needs in focal lengths and wide aperture. I would like the 16-35 to have better light sensitivity but there are no still wide angle zooms with more than 2.8... (not counting c-lenses)

Of course the Nikons will be dumb with either camera GH1/7D but then I can use the 16-35 for stills at least.

 

[djkarn105]

Knowing that, why would you want to go EF to 4/3rds? I guess I'm missing something here...

Well EF lenses will have all the focus and metering fuctions available so that's why. In terms of what lenses to get with respect to widest camera compatibility? I'd say go with Nikons. The focal flange distance for Nikons is really long so it has the most clearance and can be adapted to most modern systems (I'm basically thinking Canon, Nikon, Panasonic and sony if they ever come to the party) Nikon also has had the same mount since the 60's and so you can get some pretty good glass on ebay for cheap and upgrade piecemeal as you find your needs for how you shoot.

The caveat to all this of course is that you won't have any manual functions on any of these adapted lenses.

Personally, what I would do is get a zoom with a nice wide range for each camera and then have a nice set of fast nikon primes to back it up and in situations that aren't so run n' gun.

 

[mhood]

Well EF lenses will have all the focus and metering fuctions available so that's why.

The Nikons I can sure understand but how would you use a lens on an adapter that has no aperture ring? Again, I'm probably missing something obvious here...I have very little experience with SLRs.

 

[ydgmdlu]

In terms of what lenses to get with respect to widest camera compatibility? I'd say go with Nikons.

I totally agree on the Nikon mount. If you were to choose just one, that would be the way to go. If the D700x turns out to be what people are hoping it to be, then you'll be covered in case you want to switch to that camera (or any future Nikons). Me, I've mostly screwed myself in that regard, as I only have three Nikon-compatible lenses. But I'm looking forward to the 1Ds Mark IV and/or the Scarlet, so it's not a big deal.

 

[Peter J. DeCrescenzo]

Thanks for the replies thus far, folks. Lots of info for me to think about.

Ack! I forgot the bit about some photography lenses not have aperture controls.

Does that mean iris blades aren't built-into these lenses, or just not the aperture/iris control/ring?

Sorry, but which Nikon lenses mount? ("F"?) Will it also work with a full frame cam I might use later? And if I understand what's posted above, Nikon F can be adapted to both the 7D & the GH1?

By way of background, I'll theoretically be able to get a GH1 at a good discount via a corporate buy program. I'll probably keep the stock lens for a variety of reasons, or if after a while I find I don't use it much I may sell it. But for a lot of shooting I'll probably prefer to shoot in full manual mode including using fully-manual lenses. That's how I've shot using pro video cams for years.

Given how relatively inexpensive the GH1 & 7D bodies are, I'm thinking between the two of them (plus appropriate external mics and/or audio recording gear) they'll cover many of the kinds of shoots I might get involved with. And for shoots where they aren't appropriate, I can rent many different types of camcorders in my town.

I'd appreciate further clarification on my additional questions above. Thanks again!

P.S.: I want to add that I'm sorry for being so dense about this stuff. For whatever reason, still photography lens nomenclature & tech confuses the heck out of me.

 

[ydgmdlu]

Does that mean iris blades aren't built-into these lenses, or just not the aperture/iris control/ring?

Of course they have iris blades; the aperture is merely set by the camera. As I said in an earlier post, if you buy EF/EF-S lenses, which don't have aperture rings, you can use your 7D to set the aperture before mounting the lenses on the 7D.

Sorry, but which Nikon lenses mount? ("F"?) Will it also work with a full frame cam I might use later?

There is only one Nikon mount, and it's called the F mount. All lenses designed for Nikon (either first party Nikon or third party) can be used with an F-mount adapter. The G-series lenses, however, don't have aperture rings. Just buy older lenses, and you'll be fine. All manual focus lenses are designed for full frame. MF is what you want, since they'll be cheaper and better built, and you won't be able to do AF in video mode anyway.

And if I understand what's posted above, Nikon F can be adapted to both the 7D & the GH1?

Almost all lenses can be adapted for the GH1, so stop worrying about it. As long as it's a 35mm SLR lens, there will be some way to adapt it for the GH1.

Given how relatively inexpensive the GH1 & 7D bodies are, I'm thinking between the two of them (plus appropriate external mics and/or audio recording gear) they'll cover many of the kinds of shoots I might get involved with.

That was my thinking, which is why I'm getting both.

 

[Contact_Therapy]

I have a GH1 and a 7D on pre-order. All I use are Nikon F-mount lenses.
Search ebay for the appropriate adapter(s) and you are all set.

 

[Ian-T]

... which is why I'm getting both.

Must be nice.

 

[Peter J. DeCrescenzo]

Of course they have iris blades; the aperture is merely set by the camera. As I said in an earlier post, if you buy EF/EF-S lenses, which don't have aperture rings, you can use your 7D to set the aperture before mounting the lenses on the 7D. ...

Thanks, ydgmdlu!

Or, as you mentioned earlier in this thread, one of the relatively expensive new Novoflex adapters enables control of a nice old Nikon full frame lens' iris, correct?

I don't have a problem paying "more" for a couple of high-quality adapters if it means fewer problems & better functionality now & down the road.

 

[ydgmdlu]

Or, as you mentioned earlier in this thread, one of the relatively expensive new Novoflex adapters enables control of a nice old Nikon full frame lens' iris, correct?

No, all manual focus lenses have aperture rings. Classic manual focus lenses are manual-everything, no electronics whatsoever, which is the beauty of them.

 

[Peter J. DeCrescenzo]

Thanks, ydgmdlu, I think I've finally got that last bit straight in my head. I hope.

[oops, scratch what I wrote after that, now I think I've got it ...]

 

[ydgmdlu]

Another question: Lenses originally designed/intended for _film_ SLR cams vs. lenses designed/intended for digital sensor DSLR cams ... can a Nikon lens originally intended for use on a film cam work well on both a 7D & GH1?

The truth is that the only difference between a lens that is marked as "designed for digital cameras" and one with no such designation is that the former almost always refers to lenses designed for APS-C sensors and thus have reduced image circles. There are really no other optimizations that one can make to a lens for digital photography. Think about it this way: Film performs better than digital sensors in every way, except maybe for low-light sensitivity. So why would lens makers, who generally aim for the highest performance for any given price level, optimize lenses for a lower-performing medium? I don't even see how that's possible, except for what I described above for APS-C sensors.

A lens's sole purpose is to focus light onto a photosensitive medium. All that a lens needs to work, and the same is true for the highest quality lenses, is some glass, a metal or plastic housing, and mechanisms to move the glass elements within the housing. The quality of a lens, performance-wise, is determined by the quality of the glass and the efficiency of the optical formula (basically, the design of the elements and how they are arranged or grouped). So any decently performing lens will work well for any medium, provided that there is a way to mount the lens, and the image circle provides adequate coverage for a given format.

E.g.: when you say "old Nikon manual lens" do you mean Nikon lenses (primarily? only?) created when 35mm still film was what most people used, before DSLRs got popular?

Well, DSLRs only got popular in the last decade or so. That's when the technology became sophisticated enough to compete with film. Popular digital photography was done almost exclusively with point-and-shoot cameras before then.

The major camera makers (excluding specialty brands like Leica and the rangefinder community) stopped introducing new manual lenses decades ago, when autofocus became a must-have feature on every SLR. Nikon might still make some manual lenses, but these designs are decades-old.

Any more questions? Do you maybe want to get me on the phone to talk about this?

 

[Peter J. DeCrescenzo]

Heck, ya'll invited over for dinner! ;-)

 

[thpriest]

sorry for my ignorance but will my collection of canon FDs work with the 7D?
if so , what kind of results can i expect?
i guess the same goes for all old 35mm SLR lenses? will they work with an adaptor?
thx