Question for Jan about a AVCHD DVX

Is there any talk at Panasonic of improving the DVCPro HD codec to a higher bit rate? I understand what the AVC Intra HD is supposed to do, but what about making the bit rate higher? Or have they determined it's a diminishing return concept?
 
I don't know what talks they may be having, but from what I know of it, DVCPRO-HD is not a scalable codec, it's a fixed bitrate.

AVC is scalable, by design. They could make it run at 6 megabits, or 200 megabits. With AVC-HD they're already allowing between 6 and 24 megabits (about 8 megabits equals HDV quality). With AVC-Intra they've already announced 50-megabit and 100-megabit, and there's talk that they could go both lower and higher.

But DVCPRO-HD is finished, mature technology. It's not going to change its basic operation, it wasn't designed to do that. AVC is.
 
Many thanks, Jan. It's great your here, always helping, and giving us straight answers.

Like they say on FUEL TV (which has a lot of DVX shot, shows) - RESPECT.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
Hi,

At this point in time there is not a 24P AVCHD camera in the works. There is work being done on the AVC-Intra which I mentioned in the quote below. but as far as a little camera with 24p, not sure about that.

The first generation of AVCHD cameras need to be out there first.

Sorry,

Jan
Click to expand...

Yes, it's the return of the thread that will not die. The above is a quote from the Panasonic Queen (1/28/07) Here is the recent Panasonic press release.

"News

Panasonic Introduces AVCHD as Professional Industry Replacement for the Mini-DV Format (27/4/2007)

Panasonic PBITS today announced the inclusion of a new compression scheme in the company's line up of professional products. The highly efficient AVCHD, based on the H.264 compression scheme, will serve as the de facto replacement for the mini-DV format, and Panasonic PBITS will support the professional production industry by introducing a range of solid-state products that take full advantage of this remarkable format.

AVCHD offers twice the efficiency of HDV MPEG-2 compression, allowing the operator to capture true HD-quality pictures more efficiently, at lower bit rates. The numbers are compelling: Using AVCHD, camera operators can record 88 minutes of 1080i HD-quality video in the 6-Mbps mode on a 4-Gb SDHC card. Because this technology is based on consumer SD cards, media costs also are reduced dramatically. The format's support for IT-based workflows virtually eliminates post-production transfer times, and the attractive price range for HD equipment costs puts these advances in speed and productivity within the reach of all professionals.

"With the success of its popular P2 solid-state storage, which relies on DVCPRO and soon will support AVC-Intra, Panasonic has been a leader in facilitating true IT production workflows for the professional market," said Marc Irwin, European communication and e-marketing manager at Panasonic PBITS. "Now with the inclusion of AVCHD-based products, the company addresses an increasingly important area in worldwide production - the markets previously served by mini-DV and ranging from the production of wedding videography right up to professional broadcast in all genres. With lower costs and much improved output, AVCHD represents the logical successor to mini-DV."

The first product in the Panasonic professional AVCHD range is the AG-HSC1U AVCHD handheld 3-CCD camcorder. The AG-HSC1U is based on a consumer unit but enhanced with key improvements that differentiate it from the unit available on the general market. The most important of these improvements is the camera's colour matrix settings, which are positioned to create a truer broadcast colour range. The camera also features an advanced Leica Dicomar optical lens system, optical image stabilization, and the world's first 5.1 channel surround sound system (with zoom mic functionality) packaged in a camera.

The AG-HSC1U delivers stunning 1080i video quality using the AVCHD format and, with no moving parts, provides reliable and noiseless operation. The camera is capable of recording at three quality levels, capturing up to 88 minutes - or 41 minutes in the highest-quality mode - to a high-speed 4-Gb SDHC memory card. The camera weighs 1.1 pounds (0.5 kilograms) and comes packaged with a 4-Gb SDHC card and a battery-operated 40-Gb storage unit which can hold the contents of 10 4-Gb cards during field use. The AG HSC1U's first-rate performance and appealing price point makes it easy for professionals to test AVCHD in the field and enjoy the amazing quality possible with this palm-held unit.

Panasonic will be announcing additional product releases in the AVCHD professional range, continuing to offer real IT, real HD, and real flexibility.

www.panasonic-broadcast.com "

And then there's Barry Green's constant championing (or incessant teasing, depending on your P.O.V.) of a AVCHD DVX/HVX with quotes such as - "I mean, once we get a miniaturized HVX recording 24 megabit AVC-HD to a $19 off-the-shelf SD memory card, then we'll have something to really talk about. At 24 megabits, that'd be an hour on a cheap commodity 16GB SDHC card."

So, has anything changed with this press release. It sounds as if it has. It sounds as if Panasonic is going full-bore with AVCHD. New compression scheme, replacing mini-DV cams (like the DVX?), & lots of "professional" talk. Does any of this mean we'll get a AVCHD DVX? Any hints? Next few months? This year? Never? I'm still holding out hope for this camera. I think it would be Panasonic's biggest seller, and would fit the needs of currency challenged filmmaker's everywhere.

As always, thank you for your help.
 
WoW... thanks for the update John. I've also been holding out on gear upgrade's for the right moment. Sounds like it may be getting closer...
 
John Trent said:
And then there's Barry Green's constant championing (or incessant teasing, depending on your P.O.V.) of a AVCHD DVX/HVX with quotes such as - "I mean, once we get a miniaturized HVX recording 24 megabit AVC-HD to a $19 off-the-shelf SD memory card, then we'll have something to really talk about. At 24 megabits, that'd be an hour on a cheap commodity 16GB SDHC card."
Click to expand...
Panasonic Queen Jan says not for a few years. Now that me be just to throw me off the scent of the HDVX100 but that is what she said. Honestly they have the codec down so I don't believe 24p it will be difficult. Personally if I were Panasonic it would be the next camera I come out with.

-Nate
 
Back in January she said that there wasn't a 24p camera coming, and when that press release came out, it was for an AVC-HD camera that doesn't have 24p. So -- where's the conflict? She said there's a cam coming, it's not 24p, and the cam that came out wasn't 24p.

I don't know where you get the idea that they won't do something else for "a few years" though. Unless you can point out where she said anything like that, I think you're mixing messages. She said the HVX200 wouldn't change until 2008 at the earliest, but that doesn't mean they'll sit on just the one little AVC-HD camera for years!!!

It sounds as if Panasonic is going full-bore with AVCHD
Click to expand...
Yes I expect them to go full-bore on AVC-HD. I mean, completely obliterating HDV off the market; Panasonic and Sony and Canon are already offering (or announcing) AVC-HD cameras. It's "the new DV", the heir to the DV throne. It's the one unified world standard that all manufacturers are rallying behind. Yes it's gonna be huge. Moreso in the Panasonic consumer side than the professional side, but the HSC1U is offered by the professional/broadcast division, so obviously there will be more AVC-HD products on the pro side too.

Whether they have a plan to announce what I (and everyone else) wants, well, that remains to be seen. I mean, all due respect to them for the HSC1U, it's a very tiny little product with a great picture, but it's 60i-only. I don't really think most of us here on DVXUser were waiting for a 60i-only camera! We want a DVX-priced unit, three chips, and high-bandwidth AVC-HD recording to cheap commodity media, that does proper true 24p and has all the image "goodness" that the DVX became famous for. That's what I think they should build next. That's what I would do, if I were them.

But then again, they're a multibillion dollar company, one of the 20-largest companies in the world, so... maybe they know something I don't. ;)
 
Barry_Green said:
We want a DVX-priced unit, three chips, and high-bandwidth AVC-HD recording to cheap commodity media, that does proper true 24p and has all the image "goodness" that the DVX became famous for.
Click to expand...

Barry... you know it excites me when you talk like that. :kiss:




what? you had to see that coming:beer:
 
Barry_Green said:
... It's "the new DV", the heir to the DV throne. It's the one unified world standard that all manufacturers are rallying behind.
Click to expand...

I wish more editing options were available. We only need one-hands-worth of fingers to count with for now.

-ab
 
well there's that AVCHD deck coming out later in the year, maybe they'll announce a nice big AVCHD cam when they release that?

also that thing will make edit life easier, and by then FCP should have support ACVHD, well... you'd think it would!

i hope apple do end up putting those h.264 encoder/decoder chips in their computers, that would really help to place AVCHD in the industry scope
 
Editing support is definitely not robust yet. Vegas can edit AVC-HD files (but they specify only "from Sony cameras"! Can you believe that?!) And Canopus offers a utility that converts AVC-HD files into their excellent Canopus HQ intermediate codec. And ULead is supposed to be putting out an editor that edits AVC-HD natively at realtime speeds.

But no, the editing picture is not robust yet. Which is still sort of okay, since the only cameras that are out (so far) are little consumer-type cameras anyway, and none offer 24p yet (although Canon's will, in August or so) so until August comes around, I don't think our membership will be too concerned about it.
 
I don't think it's ok that there are so few editing NLE options out there. Friends are always asking me for recommendations of their next consumer cam- how can I look past AVC-HD when recommending it? The next question they always ask me is "Can I edit it in iMovie?", of course the answer is no. So then I point them to the HV10 or 20- and the last thing I want to recommend is an HDV camera.

I really think it's messed up that Apple has not conformed yet considering the H.264 format is basically theirs.
 
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