Question about the 24fps "look"

J

Jurno

Member
I've been watching a lot of video shot by the 7D and noted where the footage was taken at 24fps, and one thing I've noticed is that not always does it have one of the particular filmic qualities, which to me involves a slight -- not sure how to describe it -- a jitteriness to certain kinds of motion.

For instance, if you look at the Perya video by Bloom, that has it in spades. You'll see it especially in the opening shots of the man chopping with his machete, and later when the popcorn is poured. But it happens many times.



I love that look, but I've seen very few 7D videos that show it. Even those shot at 24fps.

Here's an example of a very nicely done video that doesn't seem to have it.



I suspect that it has something to do with shutter speed, or perhaps the speed of the movement being shot. But I'm such a newbie at this I don't really know. I've heard people here talk about the high-shutter-speed effect in the Saving Private Ryan opening sequence, and something tells me the two things are related.

Maybe some people don't like that look, but I really do. Can anyone explain what's underlying it?

Thanks.
 
It can be because of many factors, one is that they might have used a higher shutter speed than 1/50 which would be the equivalent for the 180 degree shutter for 24p on these cams.
So a 1/120 or higher shutter would make it look less like the cinematic aesthetic you are looking for.

The other might be that they used 720p 60 and slowed it down to 24p for some shots which does not look the same besides the slowness factor.
 
I think a lot more of it has to deal with the lighting. The same shutter speeds exist in film so that's probably not it.

BTW, how was it that you were able to embed the vimeo clips? When I did it on my thread ... http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=186185 it would show an error message where the embedded video was. I have since removed the embed and given up on it.
 
I downloaded that wedding video about an hour ago and it seems like it was shot in 30p (according to QuickTime). The carnival video I believe was in 24p.. but the change in shutter speeds is what you are seeing. the jitteryness will be more evident the faster the shutter speed.
 
Jurno said:
Hmm. The description on the Vimeo page says it was shot at 24p.
Click to expand...
That's strange cause I have it open right now and Quicktime is showing it at 29.97. maybe it was filmed in 24p but saved as a 30p file??
 
I wonder if that happens if it's edited in Final Cut Express which doesn't officially do 24p.

Edit: I've added a question about that to the comments on the video page.
 
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Perya was made by Jason Magbanua, not Philip Bloom.:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

It's the shutter speed. Jason probably didn't have enough ND filters to get correct exposure outside and still shoot with his lens at a wide aperature. So he had to increase the shutter speed.

And I've uploaded several 24P files to vimeo, and the downloaded file is 29.97. I'm not sure what Vimeo is doing with the conversion.

-Kevin
 
Sacksnack said:
Perya was made by Jason Magbanua, not Philip Bloom.:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
Click to expand...

Sorry, quite right. I made a quick scan of the page and saw Bloom's name. But that's a dumb mistake.

Sacksnack said:
It's the shutter speed. Jason probably didn't have enough ND filters to get correct exposure outside and still shoot with his lens at a wide aperature. So he had to increase the shutter speed.
Click to expand...


Okay, great. So now my question is, do most people want to avoid the look I'm talking about? Is it considered a flaw? And if it is a flaw, but people still like 24p without that flaw, then I'm wondering what exactly they like about it. What are they seeing?

Sorry for these vague sort of "feel" questions. But, like my signature says ...
 
As far as I always understood it the downloaded file is still your original upload. There shouldn't be any conversion to it at all. Strange.
 
It's not a flaw at all. Only if you never meant to use it. But it could be used as an added effect. A good example folks like to use is movies like the battle scenes in "Saving Private Ryan" or the fight scenes in "Gladiator." It's a cool effect when used right. It kind of gives one the feeling like their pupils are dilated...eyes wide open..a sense of excitement.
 
Rule number one: don't make any conclusions about technical or aesthetics about the 7D or GH1 footage based on watching stuff on Vimeo or You Tube. Even when dowloading "original files" from Vimeo. Both are great to show the world footage for pure entertainment and that's it.
 
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