Question about editing 7D native--FCP or Avid?

C

Craig Zarkos

Member
Hey All, bear with me as I'm an audio guy, and new aspiring doc film maker with the addition of this new 7D.

Question is, as I'm not doing any editing other than the occasional family movie in imovie, and I'm ready to jump in to a proper editing program, should I go with the ubiquitous FCP or Avid (light version) ?

My limited understanding is that Avid Media Composer will work nicely with the 7D footage as it is native, while FCP will still need some transcoding befor editing.

If someone could chime in as to the best workflow , and perhaps charactarize the differences between the two platforms, and which might be better for my uses I'd be much appreciative.

FWIW: i'm a mac guy-- I use Pro Tools ( Hd) on a G5 DP 1.8 for audio stuff, and would like to use that machine to get started with-- Also have a macbookpro 2.6 that I could do some editing on.

My shoots would almost always revolve around live instudio music performance, doc style interviews, and would not really be terribly intricate.

thanks for any help!

craig
 
thehybridroom.com said:
FCP will still need some transcoding befor editing.
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Nope. You've got this confused with the GH1. The 7D (and 5D) records video as .MOV files (H.264 encoding). So you just drop the clips straight into your FCP bin and timeline. No transcoding necessary, but still recommended as H.264 clips are extremely resource-intensive for playback alone. Do not expect smooth editing on either system.
 
Craig, if your a student you can pick up an educational version of the new Avid Media Composer 4.0 for $250.

If you don't qualify for the student discount there are deals all over eBay for Avid or FCP.

I'm not trying to get into a FCP vs. Avid war hear but Avid is great if your a ProTools guy and work with it alot, seamless integration between Avid & Protools.

FYI the educational version of Avid MC 4.0 (if you qualify) dose not include the 3rd part apps.

If your shoots revolve around music and you have Protools HD (nice:)) I go for the new Avid MC 4.0, no question about it.
 
so the H264 is just going to kill a MacBook Pro I assume? I have FCP 7 (or will be getting it in the mail soon)
 
Avid actually has a demo of MC 4.0 available for download - you could always try it out for 30 days and see what you think:

http://forms.avid.com/forms/MC4TrialEng


That said - I don't know anything about Avid MC.
I cut on FCP - just got my 7D today. I can drop the files straight into FCP and edit - but it does lag a little bit (my machine isn't all that powerful).
It didn't lag enough for me to be annoyed, though, and I have a low threshold for that kind of thing.

BUT - as soon as I put any filters on the footage I had to render it - and the render files weren't playing back smoothly at all.
So, while you CAN edit native files in FCP - unless you have a screaming machine, I probably wouldn't recommend it.
Not unless you don't plan on doing a lot of post work.

I could see it maybe working for a quick assembly edit - but for a final edit I'd transcode to ProRes or Cineform.
 
FYI not sure if the codecs work in the 30 day trial, I remember some talk about it over on the Avid boards, could have been 3.5, dunno. In the non trial version no transoding is needed.
 
ChipG said:
I'm not trying to get into a FCP vs. Avid war hear but Avid is great if your a ProTools guy and work with it alot, seamless integration between Avid & Protools.
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I wondered about this-- of being fluent on Pro Tools would have any carry over to Avid. similar tools etc.

every pro I know is now on, or switching to FCP-- which is why I'm leaning that way. but I know a lot of industry guys are still doing avid ( when they are on a facility owned rig). it's kinda like the comparison of PT HD to Logic.... but FCP seems to be making taking over pretty quickly from what i'm told. I just want to stick with one thing and really rock it. I like the idea of seemles integration of the Apple suite of apps---- but i'm definitely not opposed to Avid if it's going to get the job done.
I was always under the impression i would, like Digidesign -- need to invest in additional hardware to run Avid ANYTHING, is that not the case? is it native, like FCP?

thanks alot man!
 
thehybridroom.com said:
I was always under the impression i would, like Digidesign -- need to invest in additional hardware to run Avid ANYTHING, is that not the case? is it native, like FCP?
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I don't know what you mean by "native"...

Avid sells editing systems (software + hardware), but it also sells the software alone. You can buy the software and install it on any modern Windows system. And it will work fine. However, as with any non-linear editor, the more computer horsepower you have, the better...
 
FYI Avid owns Digidesign, I'm sure you new that. It's funny because 90% of the pro's I know cut on Avid but those pro's are mainly network tv and feature film guys for major studios, really big jobs.

Either way Avid 4.0 was designed to to work very well with Protools HD and the guys I know that work between those apps love the integration.
 
thehybridroom.com said:
Native meaning- "no need for additional hardware". I'd be running on a mac, if that makes a diff..
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"Standalone" is a better word. Actually, it's the industry-standard term. "Native" typically refers to the program's code (either source or compiled) being specifically written for a platform (whether it's hardware, like Intel CPUs, or software, like the Mac or Windows operating system). I'm not sure how you arrived at your definition of the word.

Avid makes a version of Media Composer for Mac.
 
Take Luis's advice, download the 30 day free trial and see what you think, only way to really know. I have heard over and over again it is better to learn avid first then fcp second. The avid way of editing is faster and more productive than the fcp way, avid takes longer to learn but when you do it is twice as fast, the trade offs...
 
ChipG said:
FYI Avid owns Digidesign, I'm sure you new that. It's funny because 90% of the pro's I know cut on Avid but those pro's are mainly network tv and feature film guys for major studios, really big jobs.
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It's true. In the big studio productions, Avid is still king and won't be replaced in the foreseeable future. FCP is taking over the indie world, however.
 
My 7D workflow on Avid is I drop the 7D clips into the bin, convert to DNxHD (same as converting to Pro Res in FCP) and edit away.

I have no probs on my laptop cutting the footage, no hardware, just Media Composer software.
 
ChipG said:
My 7D workflow on Avid is I drop the 7D clips into the bin, convert to DNxHD (same as converting to Pro Res in FCP) and edit away.

I have no probs on my laptop cutting the footage, no hardware, just Media Composer software.
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I second that. Actually I use Mpeg Streamclip to do a batch conversion of h.264 files (its fast) and edit all our work, whether in the office or the field, on Macbook Pros. The newer laptops from Mac are fast and powerful, I've been using FCP for six years and it gets better every rendition. Having the tried and true integration with the Apple hardware is helpful as well.

Had some experience back in college on Avid, not bad, just different from what I'd been used to. Reminded me of SNOWBOARDING... I'd been skiing for 11 years by the time I tried snowboarding. So I had to go from blacks & moguls to greens & bunnies. Naturally spent most of the day face down in the snow. It wasn't what I was used to so I was unbelievably sore that night in the lodge. Would it have been fun if I stuck with it? Probably. But I was already really good at skiing and am not known to be a very patient person, so after two days on the bunny hill faceplanting on the snowboard I traded back to the skis (that I was comfortably with) and continued to happily cruise the high mountain slopes, periodically nipping on the good ole' peach schnapps. If I had started editing on Avid I'm sure I would have had the opposite experience with FCP. In truth, I've played around on Adobe Premiere and it was also a good, but different experience- do what Luis suggested and try out some different editing softwares to see what suits you best.

Total Training has some learning software for FCP- http://www.totaltraining.com/prod/apple/finalcut.asp

Hope this helps-

Ash
www.inisoante.com
 
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Ha ha ha, yea... It's true, Avid is about the hardest editor to learn if you have been editing on something else for a while, it's easy to learn but harder to 'unlearn' the other editors IMO. However, if your good on Avid then you can set your FCP keyboard up same as Avid and transition fairly well. The way Avid lets you manage your media (for a large scale project) it really opens up the flood gates for creativity, it's just a different, harder to learn but more effecint way of thinking / working in the long run.

Don't think I'm an Avid die hard, I also have Edius 5 and love it! It's probably the easiest program to use for quick little projects.
 
FYI There is a reallt good 10 minute video on the net about avid and final cut pro made by an editor who uses both, he walk you through the good and bad of each. Try to google it or check youtube.
 
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