Pursuit - Trailer

i watched it again just to see what they meant about the names and remembered your "tech inc" logo. i like that. how did you make it?

as for the names...rule of thumb...titles should last long enough to read out loud twice.
 
I don't want to be too harsh, but it looks like you put more into the "advertising" and hollywood-ness of the video than the actual video.

For example, the credits card at the end of the video and under the video player looks professional, with the tall letters and everything, but there are seven people involved in making the film, why credit them each a hundred times? Why say "a Kevin Peeples film" *and* "Directed by Kevin Peeples?"

And are "Studio RB" and "Tech Inc" really seperate entities??

I'm sorry, but it makes it look very silly. And like someone said, there's absolutely no reason to put anyone's name in the trailer unless they're Tom Cruise.
 
The Noble Robot said:
I don't want to be too harsh, but it looks like you put more into the "advertising" and hollywood-ness of the video than the actual video.

For example, the credits card at the end of the video and under the video player looks professional, with the tall letters and everything, but there are seven people involved in making the film, why credit them each a hundred times? Why say "a Kevin Peeples film" *and* "Directed by Kevin Peeples?"

And are "Studio RB" and "Tech Inc" really seperate entities??

I'm sorry, but it makes it look very silly. And like someone said, there's absolutely no reason to put anyone's name in the trailer unless they're Tom Cruise.
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Well everyone is entitled to their own opinions. We feel that credit should be given wherever someone does the work. Everytime I see a project, I like to know how much control certain people have over the project. If I know that the same person wrote, produced, edited, etc, the film, then I know that the film is their dream and in their control, rather than that person being hired for a specific part and all they do is their "job". Its not in any way saying "look at me, Ive got my name in there more". No, I could care less about that. We are just honestly letting anyone who is interested know who was behind what parts of the film. If you dont care, then just go on, but dont whine about how we do things. If you do them differently, then do them differently. Also, this is the first time we've put credits on a project. I dont like credits. I dont know why but Ive never had them at the beginning of a film. This project will be the first.

And dont be quick to criticize until you've done your research. Yes, "Studio RB" and "Techinc" are separate entities.

And one more thing - the world doesnt revolve around Tom Cruise. There were actors before him and there will be many actors after him.
 
novelt said:
i watched it again just to see what they meant about the names and remembered your "tech inc" logo. i like that. how did you make it?

as for the names...rule of thumb...titles should last long enough to read out loud twice.
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Thanks, the Techinc Logo was done in photoshop and after effects. Both backgrounds are digitally manipulated pictures of metal. I then took the background, the forground, and the text into after effects and gave it movement.
 
maybe it's just me, but i think it (logo) looks really nice.

and i'm going to defend your use of actors names. in most film related contracts there are stipulations about using the actors names for promotion. then again i realize most are indies and not members of any union (i'm not), but as you said you do give credit to the people who work for you. and there's nothing wrong with the credits at the end of the trailer...that's done a majority of the time on trailers.

however the most inportant part of the equation is that the property is yoursand you can do whatever you want with it. promote it however you want. sure there are guidelines and "rules-of-thumb", but when it's all said and done it's yours.
 
It looks great. The shots in the woods and the fighting in front of the sunset looked great. This trailer definatly makes me want to watch the whole movie. good job
 
micL said:
It looks great. The shots in the woods and the fighting in front of the sunset looked great. This trailer definatly makes me want to watch the whole movie. good job
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Thanks man. We're close to finishing cutting the film and we are beginning scoring the film, so we will have a full length trailer hopefully soon.
 
KevinPeeples said:
We feel that credit should be given wherever someone does the work. Everytime I see a project, I like to know how much control certain people have over the project. If I know that the same person wrote, produced, edited, etc, the film, then I know that the film is their dream and in their control, rather than that person being hired for a specific part and all they do is their "job". Its not in any way saying "look at me, Ive got my name in there more". No, I could care less about that. We are just honestly letting anyone who is interested know who was behind what parts of the film.
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I didn't mean to put you on the defensive, really. I'm trying to be helpful, and I want you to know that even as I continue in this post to tear apart your credits card, I don't mean to say that your film doesn't look awesome, and I hope you'll remember that when you put your work up, you should expect both praise and criticism, and you should learn from it (or ignore it, but at least listen to it). I hope the film does well, and you do well, but I'm dead serious about those silly credits...

To start with, I completely agree that credit should be given whenever someone does work on a film, no matter how small or low-budget the film, no matter even how small the work, but there is no doubt in my mind that that wasn't the reason that you spelt out the credits the way you did. You don't have to apologize for it, but you should at least acknowledge that you didn't put...

"TECHINC PRODUCTIONS presents a KEVIN PEEPLES film in association with STUDIO RB"

...because you needed to make sure everyone got credited properly. You did it to make it look "professional," and "hollywood."

You credit the actors twice in the trailer, and twice on the webpage, including tha action movie staple of using the last names only, which by the way is only ever done if your audience already knows the first names of your stars. It's as if you're trying to be funny.

You also credit yourself as director twice, and you haven't explained why. I'm not at all accusing you of hubris, but I am rather accusing you of seeing a Hollywood movie with "a ___ film" and "directed by ___ " in the opening credits, and you thought that you would use that convention to make your movie more "serious." I for one think that that is a stupid and pretentious practice even for billion-dollar Hollywood films.

You credit two people and two "companies" as producers, which just comes off like a made up credit for a film this indie. People will have no trouble assuming that the director "produced" the film, there doesn't need to be a credit for it. And if it must be specificed which people "produced" it, why bother with the company names? From what I can tell, the seven people credited in the film are more or less the same people who make up TechINC and StudioRB. And if you wanna use a "production company" name, why then bother with the individual names? Choose one or the other; unless your rich uncle bankrolled the film and needs to be credited as a "producer," there's no need for both for a sub-indie flick.

And if there really was actual hollywood-type producing done on this film (and you're right, I can't say for sure what anyone did, I am simply assuming everything here), since StudioRB is essentially Ramon's one-man operation, why isn't Ramon also credited as a producer?

I personally think it's cool to have a "production company" name for your artist collective, and to use it on your projects (I use "hey ! ( we tried ) : productions" Pretentious, no?), but I think that "TechINC" is sufficient, and you can just include Ramon as part of "TechINC." It's not like they're real companies with budgets and CEOs and everything...

Also, putting actors' names in the trailer (and not just at the end of it) is done for two reasons and two reasons only:

1. Because it's in the actor's contract.
OR
2. Because the studio thinks that it will help promote the film.

You are free to edit and present your film as you see fit, and for the record, I think that it looks very good, but there is no doubt in my mind that you put the actors' names in the trailer not for either of those two reasons, but instead to make it "look hollywood." This is, of course, your choice, but it seems unnecessary and laughably transparent unless you are making a parody.

My point isn't that it makes your film any worse, but that it doesn't do anything to make the film any better, and it makes you look like you're trying to turn the film into something that it isn't, and people will notice that. You also put the name of the "star" before the title of the film in the "credits card", something a director would never, ever do unless forced by the studio or the actor, and so it is clear that it you did it so that it would look more like Hollywood credits.

Your film looks interesting and exciting (notice how the trailer doesn't say what the film as about, and everyone really wants to know? That's a sucessful teaser, brother!), and it also looks well shot and directed. So there's absolutely no reason to fake a "hollywood" credit sequence... it makes you look amaturish, no matter how good the credits or the trailer looks. It's like you don't know that no one cares about "Hollywood-style" credits.

And keep in mind that those "tall letter" poster and trailer credits are designed for actors and crew who negotiate them into their contract, which is why you don't often see "hair and makeup by" or "production assistant #4" on those credits. Sometimes, a horror or scifi movie poster will include "Special monster effects by" not only because it's vital to that kind of film, but because that monster artist or effects house has enough pull to get that in their contract, or the studio thinks that that is so vital to the film's box office potential that they want to advertise the fact that they got Rick Baker to do their werewolf costume or HG Giger to design their alien creature.

Those types of credits are not for the entire cast and crew, and they're not there so that everyone gets thier proper due (if they were, then trailers would all be 10 minutes, including the 8 minutes of credits). From the looks of it, you put your entire credit sequence up there. The fact that you have that style of credits at all is very silly.

And one more thing - the world doesnt revolve around Tom Cruise. There were actors before him and there will be many actors after him.
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I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Did you think that I was criticizing you for not landing Tom Cruise?? I don't get it. :)
 
The Noble Robot said:
I didn't mean to put you on the defensive, really. I'm trying to be helpful, and I want you to know that even as I continue in this post to tear apart your credits card, I don't mean to say that your film doesn't look awesome, and I hope you'll remember that when you put your work up, you should expect both praise and criticism, and you should learn from it (or ignore it, but at least listen to it). I hope the film does well, and you do well, but I'm dead serious about those silly credits...
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Ok, we first have to cover the fact that by putting something up on dvxuser, one must accept that they will get praise and criticism. I wouldnt have put this teaser up here if I couldnt handle criticism. The reason I became defensive was because you crossed the line from criticism to pesonal attacking. You didnt just criticize our credits, you presented the fact that you dont believe that Techinc and Studio RB are real companies, and you said things in this post that continue that. I will discuss those more in depth below.


To start with, I completely agree that credit should be given whenever someone does work on a film, no matter how small or low-budget the film, no matter even how small the work, but there is no doubt in my mind that that wasn't the reason that you spelt out the credits the way you did. You don't have to apologize for it, but you should at least acknowledge that you didn't put...


"TECHINC PRODUCTIONS presents a KEVIN PEEPLES film in association with STUDIO RB"

...because you needed to make sure everyone got credited properly. You did it to make it look "professional," and "hollywood."

You credit the actors twice in the trailer, and twice on the webpage, including tha action movie staple of using the last names only, which by the way is only ever done if your audience already knows the first names of your stars. It's as if you're trying to be funny.
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Yes, I did try to make it look more professional, more complete. Without the credits on the webpage, we just have a picture, and it needed something, but like I said before, we dont like credits, and this is the first time we've done it, and I guess I should have gone with my gut and stick to what I usually do and dont add credits. Im not having opening credits, so I guess part of me wanted to give everyone credit now since its not going on the front of the film. And since I decided to add credits to the site, why sift through and find another font to try to make it look good, when the font I have chosen is industry standard, people know it, it fits and, I admit, looks cool. Hollywood wouldnt use it if I didnt look cool. And with the last name only thing, well, that was just my preference and I wasnt copying "the action movie" look or anything, I just made that decision. And yes, my audience already knows the first names of the stars. I did not make this film for you or for anyone here on dvx. We made this film originally to historically capture the land we had before the NCDOT tears it all down, and the audience we are showing this to and intended this for knows all the people involved. This movie isnt intended to further my career or make me the next big thing. We just put so much time and work into that location for Tolerance only to end up losing the land, we really wanted something that we could look at to remember our year of being at that location.

You also credit yourself as director twice, and you haven't explained why. I'm not at all accusing you of hubris, but I am rather accusing you of seeing a Hollywood movie with "a ___ film" and "directed by ___ " in the opening credits, and you thought that you would use that convention to make your movie more "serious." I for one think that that is a stupid and pretentious practice even for billion-dollar Hollywood films.
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Well I dont disagree with you about credits, I too find it disturbing that when a movie starts we see an animated logo of the company and the studio, and then 4 seconds later we see the same name written in text. Its like, we just saw that. We dont need to see it again, but I guess its important to drill the name and logo into the minds of the viewer so they remember your name. Honestly, I dont really know why I did it. Personal preference I guess. Makes it more serious, I guess. Again, we dont normally do these, and I guess youve proven my point that I shouldnt do them, because now Im stuck in conversations like these that I wouldnt've had if I would have stuck to my gut.


You credit two people and two "companies" as producers, which just comes off like a made up credit for a film this indie. People will have no trouble assuming that the director "produced" the film, there doesn't need to be a credit for it. And if it must be specificed which people "produced" it, why bother with the company names? From what I can tell, the seven people credited in the film are more or less the same people who make up TechINC and StudioRB. And if you wanna use a "production company" name, why then bother with the individual names? Choose one or the other; unless your rich uncle bankrolled the film and needs to be credited as a "producer," there's no need for both for a sub-indie flick.

And if there really was actual hollywood-type producing done on this film (and you're right, I can't say for sure what anyone did, I am simply assuming everything here),

I personally think it's cool to have a "production company" name for your artist collective, and to use it on your projects (I use "hey ! ( we tried ) : productions" Pretentious, no?), but I think that "TechINC" is sufficient, and you can just include Ramon as part of "TechINC." It's not like they're real companies with budgets and CEOs and everything...
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Okay, this is where I draw the line. Youve gone past criticising our work to making accusations about our companies. First, dont come at me and say that theyre not real companies with budgets and CEOs. You are saying that if it doesnt have budgets or CEOs, then its not a real company, and you are wrong. A company with a CEO is a corporation, and we are an LLC, a limited liability company. By law LLCs are not required to have a CEO, but we do have managers and members, and we are a real company. If we dont keep track of everything as a business we can get screwed by the government, something that you dont have if you are a sole proprietor using a DBA or having a business name to look more professional. Also, corporations are required to have monthly board meetings, thus needing a CEO, and we are not at a stage yet where board meetings are practical, so there is no need for a CEO. This is our business, this is what we do. It is not just a hobby where we get friends toether on the weekends and shoot things. We have people that work for us on a job to job basis, and films are not everything that we do. So if this comes off to you as a made up credit, then thats how you feel, but that wont stop us from continuing our business.
And yes, Studio RB is a one man operation, but Ramon also works for a larger production company out of California or something, and I cant speak for him on how he runs his business. And no, I cant just include Ramon as part of Techinc. He works with us on some projects, but he is still seperate.

since StudioRB is essentially Ramon's one-man operation, why isn't Ramon also credited as a producer?
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Ramon is not credited as a producer because he didnt help produce it. Simple as that. He was hired to DP the film and run 2nd camera, but he had no involvment in the pre production or financial producing stages of the film.


Also, putting actors' names in the trailer (and not just at the end of it) is done for two reasons and two reasons only:

1. Because it's in the actor's contract.
OR
2. Because the studio thinks that it will help promote the film.

You are free to edit and present your film as you see fit, and for the record, I think that it looks very good, but there is no doubt in my mind that you put the actors' names in the trailer not for either of those two reasons, but instead to make it "look hollywood." This is, of course, your choice, but it seems unnecessary and laughably transparent unless you are making a parody.
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I did not put their names in there to make it look hollywood. I did it to give them credit, for one, but also, the real story behind it was because I couldnt get the teaser right and I just wanted to get it done so I could start editing the film. Many people were also pressuring me to get up a trailer, so I just desperately wanted to get something up so I could just move on. I was edting to the song and at first I didnt want to put their names in there, but the song was so short, I figured I'd edit it almost like a tv spot, where theres not really much to it except for one element. Sometimes you see many different tv spots for the same film, and each has a different theme, and the first one to come to me was the actors name themed one, and I had ideas for a fight scene only tv spot, and then a forest tv spot, etc, but I knew that the teasers werent that important and I just wanted to get to the film. So to you it comes acorss as something we are happy with, and I had no idea that someone would take every little element so seriously. Its just a teaser. Its main purpose was to please the actors and people involved until we cut something final. I wasnt planning on this advertising the film, as I am still going to edit a full trailer that will be completely different than this teaser. Going into the trailer I already knew that I wasnt going to do the credits like I did this teaser, and I had decided that way before you got on here and gave your opinions, but I was going to do it like we did the Tolerance trailer. I guess I shouldnt have put this up here until I got the real trailer for the film. I mainly put this up to kind of show a progress like some people do on here, where they give small tidbits about their upcoming work. But whatever. It was rushed and its different than I normally do, and a full trailer will come soon.

My point isn't that it makes your film any worse, but that it doesn't do anything to make the film any better, and it makes you look like you're trying to turn the film into something that it isn't, and people will notice that. You also put the name of the "star" before the title of the film in the "credits card", something a director would never, ever do unless forced by the studio or the actor, and so it is clear that it you did it so that it would look more like Hollywood credits.
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Well as I dont work with a big hollywood studio, I dont have to go by those rules. So it might be something that a hollywood director might never do, but as an independent, i chose to do it.

Your film looks interesting and exciting (notice how the trailer doesn't say what the film as about, and everyone really wants to know? That's a sucessful teaser, brother!), and it also looks well shot and directed. So there's absolutely no reason to fake a "hollywood" credit sequence... it makes you look amaturish, no matter how good the credits or the trailer looks. It's like you don't know that no one cares about "Hollywood-style" credits.

And keep in mind that those "tall letter" poster and trailer credits are designed for actors and crew who negotiate them into their contract, which is why you don't often see "hair and makeup by" or "production assistant #4" on those credits. Sometimes, a horror or scifi movie poster will include "Special monster effects by" not only because it's vital to that kind of film, but because that monster artist or effects house has enough pull to get that in their contract, or the studio thinks that that is so vital to the film's box office potential that they want to advertise the fact that they got Rick Baker to do their werewolf costume or HG Giger to design their alien creature.

Those types of credits are not for the entire cast and crew, and they're not there so that everyone gets thier proper due (if they were, then trailers would all be 10 minutes, including the 8 minutes of credits). From the looks of it, you put your entire credit sequence up there. The fact that you have that style of credits at all is very silly.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Did you think that I was criticizing you for not landing Tom Cruise?? I don't get it. :)
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You said that there's absolutely no reason to put anyone's name in the trailer unless they're Tom Cruise. I was trying to say that 95% of the movies out there dont have tom cruise in them and are filled with many other actors that get credited. So by going off of your statement, we should never see anyone else name in the credits unless its tom cruise. Once he fades away and dies, there will still be people to credit. There still are now. Thats all I meant. Just because someone isnt known doesnt mean we cant give them credit in a teaser.

And to sum everything up, I welcome the criticism, and the praise, and I am glad to be apart of this community, but I do not like it when people make accusations about other people without doing their research first. There is a fine line between giving someone helping criticism and attacking them.
 
You are saying that if it doesnt have budgets or CEOs, then its not a real company, and you are wrong.
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Sorry, I was being hyperbolic here, I didn't mean at all to say that an LLC wasn't "real," just that it isn't the same as a Hollywood studio.

Ramon is not credited as a producer because he didnt help produce it. Simple as that.
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Then why is the Studio RB credited as "presented in assocation with." I don't get it? What did Studio RB do to get that level of super-top billing? How does someone who "had no involvment in the pre production or financial producing stages of the film" get such an important credit?

This movie isnt intended to further my career or make me the next big thing...we really wanted something that we could look at to remember our year of being at that location.
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This is our business, this is what we do. It is not just a hobby where we get friends toether on the weekends and shoot things.
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These quotes don't jive. It's fine if you do some things to make money or advance your careers, and other things for other more hollistic reasons, but you're saying that this is both and niether.
I was trying to say that 95% of the movies out there dont have tom cruise in them and are filled with many other actors that get credited.
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I understand that it's hard to read sarsasm on the Internet, but you have to have known that I didn't literally mean that only Tom Cruise should be credited! I meant "Hollywood Star A" or "Mega Actor B," of course.

I don't think you should say things like your "gut" told you not to use credits anywhere, because for the record, you should always credit all of your crew and actors in the actual end credits (or opening credits if you choose) of your film, or even at the end of your trailer if you really want, but putting a name during a trailer isn't a "credit," it's an "advertisment."

If, as you say, your audience knows these people, then go ahead and do it, but you should know what it means. Also, you never indicated in your posts anything about your intended limited audience, and so we're meant to assume that we and the public are your audience.

But the end, by all means, credit anyone you want however you want and whenever you want, but just own up to what doing so means and what the context is.
 
Nice looking trailer Kevin, I'm really digging the chase sequence in the prison. Was the camera hand held? The logo looks good too.
 
ahhh...thanks moe...glad i'm not alone. i saw his logo and instantly thought "i need to fix my logo."
 
Moe said:
Nice looking trailer Kevin, I'm really digging the chase sequence in the prison. Was the camera hand held? The logo looks good too.
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Thanks man. Yeah, those shots were handheld.
 
novelt said:
ahhh...thanks moe...glad i'm not alone. i saw his logo and instantly thought "i need to fix my logo."
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I cant remember what your logo looked like. Is it around to see it?
 
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