Purchased 3

Z

zeke

Well-known member
We liked the HPX300 so much during testing, my church purchased 3 of them for use during service. Plus a Panasonic AS400 switch, AJA IO HD, a HPX170 for field use, several Mac Towers, and a new iMac. Goodbye Windows and Toaster (at least at church).

We will take delivery after thanksgiving. We have a lot of work to do to tune the system to meet our goals.

Joe C.
 
zeke-

congrats on the big buy.

who knew your business was such a good business :)

with all that new gear, i'd be happy to crew!

be well

rob
 
Thanks. Crewing means getting involved with a bunch of Baptists on Sunday morning. lol.
 
Zeke,

I have a VT5 in a flypack config and have been looking at the AS400.

Q's:
1. Why did you make the switch to a standalone switcher?
2. What are you using the Mac towers for?
3. Are you using the DSK on the switcher for lower thirds/graphics? If so, what are using.

Thanks in advance.

T
 
You're going to want to get the new Tricaster .. check it out when you
get a chance. The XD 300 is a little more than the AVHS400, but *much*
more versatile.

jeff
 
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Zeke-
Any plans on using either the 300Studio or 300StudioPlus accessory kits to convert your 300s into studio cams?
Jeff-
One of the things the old NewTek Toaster and Tricaster weren't very good at was IMAG. Because they were computer based there was about a 3 frame delay in the video in comparison to house audio. This caused an obvious lip sync for the live audience viewing the projection. Has the new Tricaster resolved this issue?
Also before buying the Tricaster I'd suggest any purchaser make sure there's another user in the area that could act as mentor/tutor when problems or questions arise. So although it may be an okay purchase in LA or northern VA, it might not be ideal in North Dakota.
 
BerkeleyBob said:
Zeke-
Any plans on using either the 300Studio or 300StudioPlus accessory kits to convert your 300s into studio cams?
Jeff-
One of the things the old NewTek Toaster and Tricaster weren't very good at was IMAG. Because they were computer based there was about a 3 frame delay in the video in comparison to house audio. This caused an obvious lip sync for the live audience viewing the projection. Has the new Tricaster resolved this issue?
Also before buying the Tricaster I'd suggest any purchaser make sure there's another user in the area that could act as mentor/tutor when problems or questions arise. So although it may be an okay purchase in LA or northern VA, it might not be ideal in North Dakota.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen the production boxes (as they haven't shipped), but they claim
that the through-put latency ( minus virtual sets and overlays ) is less than
1 frame.

jeff
 
tommygunn said:
Zeke,

I have a VT5 in a flypack config and have been looking at the AS400.

Q's:
1. Why did you make the switch to a standalone switcher?
2. What are you using the Mac towers for?
3. Are you using the DSK on the switcher for lower thirds/graphics? If so, what are using.

Thanks in advance.

T
Click to expand...

Our VT5 setup had been an on going source of frustration. From losing settings to hanging in the middle of capture (we were capturing 3 services a weekend at one point).
When I started my research into alternatives and our desire to move to HD, I had 2 goals in mind.
1. Modular
2. Simplify
We don't need all the stuff the Tricaster or VT5 has to offer.
The AS400 supports lower thirds and DSK.
Since we haven't got it in yet, I'm answering this based on documentation and when Panasonic brought a demo uint in. We can simply load into the switches memory what we need for lower thirds, and feed it externally for via any of the inputs.
We can also feed computer sourced DVI directly into it for Power Point style output.

For Modular..the church will soon be undergoing a huge remodeling and we need to easily move equipment around. While not a flypack, we can setup anywhere there is main power. Even outside.

For Simplify...I was one of the few people trained to use the VT5 in the entire church, even then, when things went wrong, I had to call the media pastor to come help. With the switch, I can concentrate on switching between cameras and graphics without having to worry about whether things are working or not. We will be able to train more volunteers with this simpler configuration.

The AJA IO HD will do most of the heavy lifting, not only capturing video and audio, but acting as a mini router to the overhead projecter and the LCD TVs located throughout the building.
To answer other questions.
1 Mac Tower for capturing from the AJA and later editing and outputing to DVD and the Web.
2 Mac Towers for editing and ingesting footage from other sources.
1 iMac with a DVI to BNC (probably SDI) for sending down graphics and IMAG type stuff.
To save money, we are getting several AJA mini converter boxs.
1 an HDSDI to HDMI converter to run directly off of the switch to attach to a LCD TV instead of an expensive studio monitor. We will have the 'look' of the cameras set internally so full color accuracy is not a concern during capture, just focus and preview.

We will have an SDI to VGA converter coming from the AJA to feed the LCD TV's around the church (using existing infrastructure). The AJA IO HD does downconverting inside the box.

Plus a couple of more I can't remember as to why at the moment.

We have been planning this move for quite awhile. What prompted us to finally take the step was a church fire in the baptistry a few months ago. There was a short in the electronic heating element in the tub, which is directly over the media control center...it burned a hole in the tub, which dropped several hundred gallons of water directly on the VT5 and other equipment. Luckily the fire was spotted by a church member before it got out of hand, and the majority of damage was from smoke and flooding.

As far as studio configuration. Yes and no. We have some very capable staff who can create the 3 bnc cable configuration for a lot less money than what Pana wants. We are thinking of getting a stand alone sync and timecode generator, for 'house' signal to all the cameras and the AJA.
We are also getting Miller D20 tripods , Varizoom lens controllers, and Sony base plates.
Turns out, we are saving more money by getting refurbished Mac Towers (still based on the new Nehalem architecture). Saving several hundred dollars per box.

We are working through a local systems integrator, but I'm not sure if it's okay to mention them since they don't advertise here. How we finally got a good local systems integrator to work with us is a whole other story.

I would like to say this, unlike Sony, Panasonic worked with us from the very beginning (starting at NAB) and connected us with the right people to get this done.

I don't think we were a big enough sale for Sony and their authorized Northern VA rept to be bothered.
Fortunately, we found a great Pana vendor in Silver Spring MD who could handle the entire package.

The quality output of the camera and equipment got Pana in the door, it was all the work afterwords that got the sale.
 
BerkeleyBob said:
Zeke-
Any plans on using either the 300Studio or 300StudioPlus accessory kits to convert your 300s into studio cams?
Jeff-
One of the things the old NewTek Toaster and Tricaster weren't very good at was IMAG. Because they were computer based there was about a 3 frame delay in the video in comparison to house audio. This caused an obvious lip sync for the live audience viewing the projection. Has the new Tricaster resolved this issue?
Also before buying the Tricaster I'd suggest any purchaser make sure there's another user in the area that could act as mentor/tutor when problems or questions arise. So although it may be an okay purchase in LA or northern VA, it might not be ideal in North Dakota.
Click to expand...

Since we plan on running our own cable kits, the only thing needed is an external on camera monitor that indicates tally. But really, in our case, we can probably get by without it. We are moving from 1/6" chip consumer cameras to HD. We are used to shootng free run style.

Our Pastor does not speak to the camera. It is our responsibility to keep up with him during service. We've gotten quite good at it too. So 'tally' is not needed since we tell the operators whos active and who's on deck.

The HPX300 already has so many broadcast features built in, I would recomend getting one to test in house before thinking about adding on stuff. The view finder and/or LCD are quite capable of handling focus issues.
But if we were putting the cameras on pedestals instead of tripods, I could see the need for an external attached monitor. We may still do that anyway.
 
Zeke,

Thanks for the response. I have VT5 flypack and have been very satisfied with it. It has never failed on me during a live switch, including capture and instant replay at the same time. HOWEVER, the frame-delay kills me - AND - its not HD ready. So, I'm very interested to see how your setup works out. Please keep us updated.

A couple more questions:
1. Why is the AJA doing the "heavy-lifting?" Can't you just output from the switcher?
2. For true lower-thirds and alpha graphics, wouldn't you need a separate machine running Inscriber or a Chryon package - sending SDI to the DSK?
3. Elaborate on the 3 bnc cable config.

Thanks again,
T
 
tommygunn said:
Zeke,

Thanks for the response. I have VT5 flypack and have been very satisfied with it. It has never failed on me during a live switch, including capture and instant replay at the same time. HOWEVER, the frame-delay kills me - AND - its not HD ready. So, I'm very interested to see how your setup works out. Please keep us updated.

A couple more questions:
1. Why is the AJA doing the "heavy-lifting?" Can't you just output from the switcher?
2. For true lower-thirds and alpha graphics, wouldn't you need a separate machine running Inscriber or a Chryon package - sending SDI to the DSK?
3. Elaborate on the 3 bnc cable config.

Thanks again,
T
Click to expand...
Tommy, the VT5 will 'NEVER' be HD aqccording to NewTek. You have to move to the new Tricaster for that. As far as problems, most of them were hardware related between the VT5 card and the host system. Most the time, it worked just fine, But when it failed, it failed spectacularly.

1. When I say the AJA IO HD is doiing the heavy lifting, I mean it is capturing uncompresed HD and converting to ProRezHQ, which is going to be captured realtime via Firewire 800 by the Mac Tower with FCP (required). It is also doing the down and cross conversion to output to different areas (Projector, TVs).

With the VT5, we had to capture uncompressed, then convert to the toasters proprietary codec for editing and output. Not a problem, but time consuming.

The AJA handles that step for us and gives us ready to edit PRoResHQ. Don't even need high performance raid drives like we needed on the VT, though having them helps.

2. For lower thirds, no, for a lot of other stuff, maybe, and we can adapt to that if needed (putting an AJA card into a Mac Pro and having it sit between the switch and the IO HD). During service, we briefly switch to a powerpoint style text (scripture), then back to camera.

BTW since you are windows based, there is a much less expensive software package for downstream keying, go to
http://www.caymangraphics.com and check out "Power CG live"
It's priced well under 1K USD for SD, and right at 1K for HD. They support BMD and AJA cards and give you very powerful downstream options, way beyond lower thirds.
Their software is bundled with down stream keyer systems from DataVideo at almost twice the price.

You can download a fully functional trial version of their software for free. It includes a tutorial, and places a watermark over everything it outputs. I like it enough I offered to buy it for the church and build a system, but they want to go Mac all the way.

There is a great piece of software for the Mac called Pro Presenter that has an excellent site license and lots of experience with houses of worship. It can be configured for graphics overlay, text or be setup as a downstream keyer. But it's not really for general broadcast the way Cayman Graphics software is.

For the 3 bnc cable config. If you look at what Panasonic is offering for their broadcast cable kit, it's around 1400 USD for three bnc cables precut (I forgot what length, I think 100 feet). Once we saw that, we figured we could make our own. The Media Paster is used to cutting and running broadcast cables around the church, so we can try that before buying. If you are like me, born with 20 thumbs, the Pana kit is a great buy.

The church also likes the P2 work flow. They can take their new HPX170 or one of the HPX300s and do field efp without need of the IO HD or a laptop.


Hope this helps.

If you are setting up for live broadcast, our configuration is not what you want, unless you are willing to invest in a lot more kit (like encoder boxes for specific targets).
We are time delayed. First getting the 9am service on line before 3pm Sunday, then creating a DVD and offering it for sale or donations, or free if you are financially strapped. We also have started a daily radio program broadcasted on several christian radio stations. They consist of the audio portion of past services, along with additional commentary from the Pastor. Last but not least, the full time media staff produce many digital shorts and puts them on the churches youtube channel.

Nothing live though.
 
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Zeke,

Thanks.

- We always capture to AVI type-2, then drop into Final Cut for editing. But for HD capture, the AJA box is definitely the way to go to real-time capture on the fly.

- We are mac based (Except the VT). It seems like all the CG software (Harris/Chryon) I've found runs on Windows. Blah. I will check out your recommendations.

- We do live corporate events, annual meetings, fundraisers, etc. So looking for a new solution as HD enters the mid-level corporate A/V segment.

- Other products looking at: For.A switchers and Broadcast Pix Slate 1000
 
tommygunn said:
Zeke,

Thanks.

- We always capture to AVI type-2, then drop into Final Cut for editing. But for HD capture, the AJA box is definitely the way to go to real-time capture on the fly.

- We are mac based (Except the VT). It seems like all the CG software (Harris/Chryon) I've found runs on Windows. Blah. I will check out your recommendations.

- We do live corporate events, annual meetings, fundraisers, etc. So looking for a new solution as HD enters the mid-level corporate A/V segment.

- Other products looking at: For.A switchers and Broadcast Pix Slate 1000
Click to expand...

I was very impressed with the For.A switches at NAB. The problem was the asian guy trying to explain things to me barely spoke english. But I did get out of him, they process at 4:4:4 instead of 4:2:2. They did some pretty impressive live blue/green stuff.

I think an affordable i920 based windows sytem with a BMD Card and CG Live Pro would be worth checking out, even it if it is windows. You could build something with a mATX board and a case similar to the shuttle Pc if you are space constrained.

One example I saw was keying menu ingredients over the video in an ascending series of strips for a cooking show. Would work for actual live or time delayed. They also play back wmv files in a box or as a replacement for the external stream.

btw, if you don't already have a Mac Book Pro or Tower dedicated for capture, it might be less expensive to get tne new AJA Ki Pro. Doesn't have all the feature of the IO HD, but does not require a computer for capture.

lastly, since you are wise enough to go with a downstream keyer instead of pushing back through the switch, have you checked the new Datavideo SE2000? 3 HDSDI plus one DVI, plus 4 xlr audio for less than 6K USD street? Not sure if it's shipping yet, but worth a look if it is. It doesn't support DSK the way the Pana and For.A do, and is not expandable either. Like the Pana and the 4A it supports multiview.
 
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