Prosumer Camcorder Advice

B

boke

Active member
I looked thru some of the older threads and found some good help but I was hoping to get a little more direction. Not sure if this is the right forum either, mods sorry if its not.

I'm starting up an E-Learning company making ...well.. E-Learning platforms and our first is an ESL english learners program. It's more or less an interactive textbook that can be a stand alone program (so I don't have to worry about size of the program in terms of the internet and internet video) or can be progresivly downloaded and viewed on the internet. Inside the program altogether there is about 30-40 minutes of chromakeyed video clips that act more or less as the guide/teacher. That would take up about 90% of my camcorder use, the other 10% would be doing video podcasting.So I need a descent camcorder. But my budget is currently around $2000.

I have a couple of questions , if I increase my budget to $3000 can I get a worthwhile improvement? Should I go with High Def? All things being equal whats more important high def, or 3 ccd chips?size of the chips?All of my customers will be viewing it thru their computers . Is the difference between "prosumer" and normal "consumer" camcorders that great?I've found so many choices that I feel a bit overwhelmed. Here are some of the things I've researched ($2000-$3000 range)

Canon GL2

Canon XH A1

Panasonic AG-DVX100B

Canon XL2

Any help is much appreciated,thanks.
 
If I understand what you want to do correctly, which is basically to have a video playback on a computer, then HDV is not necessary. However, 98% of the work that I now do is all web based and I am very happy that I shoot in HDV. I am sure that most would agree that you want to start with the best image possible. Of that list that would point to the Canon XH A1, which happens to be the camera that I use, and I love it.

I have been fortunate enough to use most of the cameras or similar models to ones on your list. The GL2 is OK, I wasn't all that psyched with it compared to a VX200/2100. I had a XL1s for 6 months or so. Much better than the GL2 but not great. The nice thing with the XL2 is it has a more professional look. To those using the camera that doesn't mean much but for clients it can mean quite a bit. That being said I sold it for another PD170 and was very happy once I returned to Sony. IMO the DVX is the best SD camera on the list. However I would avoid DVXs like the plague because of parts issues.

You mention chroma-keying, is that with a talking head or body shot of the instructor? In that case I would lean even more toward the HDV camera. Having 1080 interlaced lines to work with as opposed to 480 lines can make a big difference in the final key.
 
for chroma keying you definitely want a 3ccd camera. it reads colors better and therefore will give better results. For internet use, high definition will not be important. The files will be too big to stream, and very few people will have HD monitors anyways. If widescreen is important then go with the XL2 if not, the DVX100b.
The GL2 is a fine camera, but the DVX is certainly a huge step up. The main advantage of course is 24p (and variable frame rates in general). Although, for your type of work that may not be important. The GL2 will perform well in controlled settings (a studio) so if the price is a major factor, then the GL2 will be fine. If you can though, you should reach for the DVX100b/XL2. There are tons of forums comparing these two cameras and there really is no right answer over which one is better. The XL2 is more expensive though, so most people go for the DVX100b.

hope that helps.
 
xl2 is more expenisive with way more platic and a stupid lens that you cannot focus or zoom with out bad results. If the xl2 came with the fully manuel lens then I might have thought about going xl2 over dvx. For web stuff I feel that progressive is really important, but that is just my view. (computer monitors are progressive, and tv's are interlaced) xha1 has no progressive.
 
yeah I think I'm going to go with the DVX. Can I get the A model much cheaper than the newer B model?

The Chromakeying will be 3/4ths body or maybe even full body (with fullbody I'm a bit scared of the position of greenscreen and lighting) I have to try both out and see, something like this

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobatconnectpro/elearning/


I see a lot of good results with the sgpro? Would it help me in my situation as well? I wonder if there's a large difference between "proffesional"look and "film" look?
 
By the "professional" look of the XL2 I meant the appearance of the camera not footage.

If you must go DVX I would avoid everything but the "B" model. The "A"model will be cheaper but the parts issue that some of us are facing is not going to get any better. I have a very nice "A" model with 120 hours on it that has been on a shelf for over a year because of a discontinued $60 part. If they discontinue parts for the "A" model the "B" is soon to follow.

Taking a quick look at the video (it looks very nice) it looks like at least the interviews were shot in HD with a higher end 1/2" or more likely a 2/3" chip camera.
 
boke said:
yeah I think I'm going to go with the DVX. Can I get the A model much cheaper than the newer B model?

The Chromakeying will be 3/4ths body or maybe even full body (with fullbody I'm a bit scared of the position of greenscreen and lighting) I have to try both out and see, something like this

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobatconnectpro/elearning/


I see a lot of good results with the sgpro? Would it help me in my situation as well? I wonder if there's a large difference between "proffesional"look and "film" look?
Click to expand...


Hi Boke,

You cross posted several places making it difficult to communicate with you concerning some questions necessary to help you with what you're trying to do.

The $2500 you mention for a camera isn't much of a budget, but then we really don't know what you have to do. If the project is for broadcast next year, it should likely be a HD project instead of SD. But at the $2500 mark, it really sounds more like a historical record project that might not really see broadcast - meaning that it doesn't matter.

Audience matters and should be taken into consideration in your planning. What goals are you trying to accomplish in the project? What are you trying to do?

How important is the audio? Are you conducting interviews? Will you need a small portable lighting kit? A small lav microphone kit? A small shotgun microphone kit? In the end, those things might be more important than the camera.
 
telemaine said:
By the "professional" look of the XL2 I meant the appearance of the camera not footage.

If you must go DVX I would avoid everything but the "B" model. The "A"model will be cheaper but the parts issue that some of us are facing is not going to get any better. I have a very nice "A" model with 120 hours on it that has been on a shelf for over a year because of a discontinued $60 part. If they discontinue parts for the "A" model the "B" is soon to follow.

Taking a quick look at the video (it looks very nice) it looks like at least the interviews were shot in HD with a higher end 1/2" or more likely a 2/3" chip camera.
Click to expand...


How can they stop making parts for the 100B when they are still making the camera???? I think your going a little overboard with that...i mean yeah one day they WILL stop making parts for the 100B but seeing as that model is still in production and IS the current model as of right now, they wont stop supporting that model for AT LEAST a couple of years. You make it sound like as soon as the HMC150 drops this fall that every 100B part in the world is instantly going to incinerate...they will still keep making parts for it for a lil while, i mean they just recently stopped supporting the A and that been out of production for a couple years now.
 
MikeGunter said:
Hi Boke,

You cross posted several places making it difficult to communicate with you concerning some questions necessary to help you with what you're trying to do.

The $2500 you mention for a camera isn't much of a budget, but then we really don't know what you have to do. If the project is for broadcast next year, it should likely be a HD project instead of SD. But at the $2500 mark, it really sounds more like a historical record project that might not really see broadcast - meaning that it doesn't matter.

Audience matters and should be taken into consideration in your planning. What goals are you trying to accomplish in the project? What are you trying to do?

How important is the audio? Are you conducting interviews? Will you need a small portable lighting kit? A small lav microphone kit? A small shotgun microphone kit? In the end, those things might be more important than the camera.
Click to expand...


Well in the end I'll be selling them, each program is basically 1 ESL (english as a second language) lesson. The lesson has an intro, example conversation, grammar explanation, practice problems, roleplaying (for example ordering at a restaurant, a video of the waitress will appear ask a question, then a cue comes up and with that the student makes a sentence and goes on to the next question) , and finally a support section (vocab builders,cultural notes,ect). I write 15 lessons, group them together,then sell them as a set. My customers will be from all around the world (but mainly asia). They will be private individuals, high schools, companies with international businessmen. I've already produced a couple of similar products for some major companies here (Mitsubishi Denki, Nitto Denko, Sharpe, I live in japan).But those products had no video just animations. 90% of the recording will be done in the same stage inside, with only one actor/teacher. There will be 3 ways of distribution, 1 stand alone .exe program on a CD/DVD. 2- A once off download from my site. 3- A progressive download of chapters (similar to www.lynda.com). I plan on buying a lav (pin?) microphone. My budget is more or less 2000-3000 but I was hoping to get something good but used:undecided so that I could get a better price. Been researching cameras for about a month and this forum is by far the best/most helpful I've found yet. But there are so many choices!!!:lipsrseal


Again I really appreciate everyones help, if you ever need a guide in Japan or some Flash/Actionscript work by all means ask.
 
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