FS5: ProRes RAW Dilemma on the PC

Michael Erlewine

Michael Erlewine

Well-known member
I have a Sony SF5 with raw upgrade, plus the Atomos Shogun Inferno, drives, and all of that. However, I am on the PC at the moment and it will be a while before I can afford a tweaked-out Mac to run FCPX on. Here is my question:

What is to stop me from recording ProRes RAW on the Shogun Inferno and saving it to hard drives for editing down the road? I am working on a documentary that I won’t have to edit for quite some time. I am just gathering footage at this point and about to hit the road for this.

Is there any way to use the Atomos Shogun Inferno to LOOK at footage on a hard drive? The Inferno is on its way to me now, so I have had no chance to play with it.

Is there a way that I can view the ProRes RAW footage on the Shogun Inferno in the meantime. Any ideas? Thanks.
 
NorBro said:
Download a file yourself and check:

https://filmplusgear.com/prores-raw-testfiles-for-download-nab-2018/

There is nothing stopping you from filming as much ProRes RAW as you'd like if you understand that Adobe and Windows may never have support and you may eventually need that Mac down the road.

But highly recommend you shoot regular ProRes.
Click to expand...

I can do that and store it on a hard drive. Is there any way to view it but not edit it? Is there any way for the Atomos Shogun Inferno to access ProRes files on disk and view them?

That would be enough to let me start on the documentary I am doing.
 
Michael, download the file and check.

It doesn't matter if you download a file from the internet onto your desktop or drag and drop it from the SSD onto your desktop.

It's a transfer of information.

Your computer will recognize it or it won't. It will be able to play it or it won't.

If you're able to open and view the ProRes RAW file in any video player you may have or that's available for Windows, of course you would be able to just view it and not edit it. (Not sure what you're asking here...typo?)

The Atomos should be able to playback the ProRes RAW files in its device.
 
NorBro said:
Michael, download the file and check.

It doesn't matter if you download a file from the internet onto your desktop or drag and drop it from the SSD onto your desktop.

It's a transfer of information.

Your computer will recognize it or it won't. It will be able to play it or it won't.

If you're able to open and view the ProRes RAW file in any video player you may have or that's available for Windows, of course you would be able to just view it and not edit it. (Not sure what you're asking here...typo?)

The Atomos should be able to playback the ProRes RAW files in its device.
Click to expand...

I have a few Macds around, but they are too old. My question has become: is there any way for the Atomos Shugun Inferno to look at a file other than to take it from the camera?
 
As I mentioned, the Atomos Shogun is able to playback the ProRes RAW files in its own device.

You go into the playback mode and you'll see all of your clips. Choose and play.
 
NorBro said:
As I mentioned, the Atomos Shogun is able to playback the ProRes RAW files in its own device.

You go into the playback mode and you'll see all of your clips. Choose and play.
Click to expand...

I see that. What I wonder is if there is a way to point the Shogun Inferno at files on a disk and play those. Is there?
 
Meaning does the Shogun Inferno have a directory that can load files from disk and play then in the Shogun so you could see ProRes RAW?
 
What's a disk? CD? DVD? HDD?

If you're talking about transferring files from somewhere else (another storage device) onto the Shogun Inferno formatted SSD that already has ProRes RAW files then I don't know.

The files on the SSD will have a file naming convention. Maybe it will work regardless of the name since the format is the same (ProRes RAW), or maybe you'll have to rename them to match the rest of the framework (but maybe even then it may not work, IDK).

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You're making this super complicated, haha.

Why don't you experiment with everything?

You have (or will have) all of the gear - FS5, Inferno, SSD, "disk", a computer - and can easily test yourself, no?

---

Regardless, why does it matter? You've already made a decision to shoot ProRes RAW without having any support from your main hardware and software.

You can store the footage on multiple drives until it's supported or buy a Mac when you're ready.

And if you want to view the footage on the Shogun Inferno to start editing by writing down timecodes (which is the feeling I'm getting) then you'll most likelly have multiple drives and will have to keep swapping them.

If you're asking if there is a way to hook up the Shogun Inferno to a computer that might have a media bay where all of your footage is located where you can somehow use the Inferno to chose which drive you want to view and view all of your files then my guess is only via a SDI/HDMI connection that's just transferring the image back to the Inferno (if possible), but you would not have access to any of the HDR settings on the Inferno to control the image of the ProRes RAW files (if needed). And again, you would need to be able to open the files on the computer for that to work (if possible).
 
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NorBro said:
What's a disk? CD? DVD? HDD?

If you're talking about transferring files from somewhere else (another storage device) onto the Shogun Inferno formatted SSD that already has ProRes RAW files then I don't know.

The files on the SSD will have a file naming convention. Maybe it will work regardless of the name since the format is the same (ProRes RAW), or maybe you'll have to rename them to match the rest of the framework (but maybe even then it may not work, IDK).

---

You're making this super complicated, haha.

Why don't you experiment with everything?

You have (or will have) all of the gear - FS5, Inferno, SSD, "disk", a computer - and can easily test yourself, no?

---

Regardless, why does it matter? You've already made a decision to shoot ProRes RAW without having any support from your main hardware and software.

You can store the footage on multiple drives until it's supported or buy a Mac when you're ready.

And if you want to view the footage on the Shogun Inferno to start editing by writing down timecodes (which is the feeling I'm getting) then you'll most likelly have multiple drives and will have to keep swapping them.

If you're asking if there is a way to hook up the Shogun Inferno to a computer that might have a media bay where all of your footage is located where you can somehow use the Inferno to chose which drive you want to view and view all of your files then my guess is only via a SDI/HDMI connection that's just transferring the image, but you will not have access to any of the HDR settings on the Inferno to control the image of the ProRes RAW files (if needed).
Click to expand...

In other words, I will find out if I could copy files from a storage disk onto the Atomos SSDs, reinsert the caddy and.... (here is my wonder), would the Atomos play the files for me on the monitor?

I also wonder what size Mac system is enough to work with ProRes RAW. Anyone want to suggest what such a Mac system would entail?
 
Are you reading the responses or just asking questions?

NorBro said:
The files on the SSD will have a file naming convention. Maybe it will work regardless of the name since the format is the same (ProRes RAW), or maybe you'll have to rename them to match the rest of the framework (but maybe even then it may not work, IDK).
Click to expand...
 
NorBro said:
Not sure it's all getting through to you...I hope it all works out though!
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It's getting through to me, but gradually. LOL. The system arrives tomorrow, after which I can begin to experiment.

I will record something to SSD, copy it, reformat the SSD, copy whatever was on it back, and see what happens.

I am not new to photography, just to working with ProRes RAW and all that it entails without a Mac. Not a lot of info out there and many who know won't bother to answer questions from someone who does not know enough... or something like that.

I am a very experienced still photographer

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5xDr8mWUwrzi4bxY978O1DQykUrj-S2I

http://spiritgrooves.net/e-Books.aspx#Photography
 
IMO, most people don't care about ProRes Raw...at least not yet. Many can't use it, many don't own any of the few cameras compatible with it (or don't care for external recording), or simply understand that regular ProRes (or the internal recording options of their camera: C300 Mark II, FS7, etc.) is more than enough.

As far as the SSD...that's a good test. And if it works then the next test should be transferring a ProRes RAW file back onto the SSD that you have renamed. If that works then you're all set and can freely transfer ProRes RAW files to and from the formatted drive as you see fit no matter what they are named. (But don't change the extension.)
 
I had regular ProRes 10-bit on my Sony FS-700 with raw and the Odyssey Q7 system that I sold. Working with a raw codec like ProRes in 4K should be very worthwhile. My BlackMagic Pocket Camera also has ProRes. I have worked with raw digital stills fo many years and there is nothing like it. This won't be that, yet, but it should be more flexible than baked-in non-raw codecs.

So, while I am not a video person, primarily, I know quite a bit, just not this ProRes RAW stuff and I am always impatient and trying to figure things out in advance.
 
True, true...but ProRes RAW will not save you if you don't know anything else about producing motion pictures.

You're excited right now so it's understandable, but you're comparing the concept of shooting RAW in photography (1 still frame) to video where there are many more important things to consider and worry about.

Maybe also check this out for a different perceptive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoJCgDDgi74
 
NorBro said:
True, true...but ProRes RAW will not save you if you don't know anything else about producing motion pictures.

You're excited right now so it's understandable, but you're comparing the concept of shooting RAW in photography (1 still frame) to video where there are many more important things to consider and worry about.

Maybe also check this out for a different perceptive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoJCgDDgi74
Click to expand...



Giving all due respect to Max Yuryev and his video, there are a lot of variables here. As for me, I am a close-up photographer (for the most part) for many years. And, as mentioned, I shot standard ProRes on the Sony FS-700, BMPC, and others, so I have some idea what ProRes can do. As an experience focus-stacker, I am used to taking time and patience with a shot, not to mention lighting. I will use PreRes RAW a lot differently than in that video. The video failed to move the needle any amount, IMO.

It's true, what Yuryev points out that many of us are trying to save storage space, time, weight, and what-not. I am the opposite. I take time to make my shots. After all, I am a still-life photographer (LOL). I will mostly be making still-life "move" and doing interviews. I want well-lit crystal clear shots, if I can manage them. I am not running and gunning, so to speak.

So, we will see what I can come up with... over time. Thanks for your kindness and pointing things out!
 
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Michael Erlewine said:
Is there a way that I can view the ProRes RAW footage on the Shogun Inferno in the meantime. Any ideas? Thanks.
Click to expand...

asking the same question three times doesn't bring another answer.

coming from still photography also but 10yrs ago I highly recommend not trying to transfer these habits to motion pictures. Learn about sound recording and editing. Set exposure and white balance properly. It's different. Imagine you are shooting JPG now. Get things right in camera and don't focus on the RAW thing. Practice.
The ProRes RAW would give you an extra benefit of 15% in highlights and in dynamic range. Try to get the maximum of the 85% maximum first. I assure your clients won't see the difference of a proper 10bit 422 and a ProRes RAW. Neither they won't pay for it.
my 2cts
 
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