Problems using MD46 with Sony Camcorder

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RichardfromLondon

Member
I plugged a Sennheiser MD 46 via an xlr cable into my Sony PXW X70 camera and I heard an audible white noise sound in the background through the headphones and on playback. I changed the XLR cable and still heard the same thing.

Then I used my Sennheiser G3 radio receiver with the MD46 and SKP 100 with the receiver going into the same camera and heard no white noise, and there was also no white noise sound when I recorded with the MD46 with the same XLR cables through my Tascam recorder.

Can anyone give any suggestion as to why this happens, is it possible there is a fault on this brand new camera?:happy:
 
Just out of curiosity, how hig did you have to crank the gain on the camera's input?

My guess is not-so-great pre-amps in the camera coupled with a mic that has a lower output. The Sennheiser transmitter has better clean gain, and appareantly the Tascam (which recorder, by the way?) does as well.

Not having used that camera, I can't say with 100% certainty, but I am curious as to how much you had to crank the input up.
 
That model may have multiple settings for audio gain and level. Are you sure you have everything set optimally?
As Alex.H suggested, the output of a wireless receiver is quite a bit higher than that a dynamic microphone.
The settings you would use for your wireless receiver would almost certainly NOT be appropriate for that mic.
 
RichardfromLondon said:
I plugged a Sennheiser MD 46 via an xlr cable into my Sony PXW X70 camera and I heard an audible white noise sound in the background through the headphones and on playback.

Then I used my Sennheiser G3 radio receiver with the MD46 and SKP 100 with the receiver going into the same camera and heard no white noise, and there was also no white noise sound when I recorded with the MD46 with the same XLR cables through my Tascam recorder.

Can anyone give any suggestion as to why this happens...
Click to expand...

Yes. It's a dynamic microphone, and you had to crank the volume on the camera to get a reasonable signal level. This put stress on the cheap micpres in the camera resulting in audible preamp hiss. This is the expected behavior.

The "cure" for this is to use a field mixer with good mic preamps (that's kinda/sorta what happens when you use your plug on transmitter which has a preamp designed for dynamic mics) or second system sound (which is best). Or... use a condenser mic powered by the camera's phantom power system. Any of these will alleviate this symptom.

Personally I use a SD MixPre-D field mixer. You won't believe the improved sound quality until you try one. Especially with a mic like the MD46. Although I'd want an MD42 instead for almost any use.
 
I called Sony and they had to admit it is a fault with that model of camera. Their response is that I should be using Sony microphones !

They said there are problems using some Sennheisers with the camera.

It is a professional camcorder, with XLR inputs, so it is odd that there should be such issues.
 
Apparently Sony has just as much trouble hiring competent people as any other company does.
"Use Sony microphones." is something we would expect to hear from a low-level clueless sales clerk who was flipping burgers last week.

Most video camcorders suffer from microphone inputs of limited quality.
No video camera has really good audio recording performance. That is why people use double-system sound.
The camera audio is only used for synchronization to the REAL audio track
 
RichardfromLondon said:
It is a professional camcorder, with XLR inputs, so it is odd that there should be such issues.
Click to expand...

No it's not. Your preconceived notions are wrong.

Dynamic microphones in general need considerably more amplification than condenser mics. That your camera (indeed, most cameras) can't cleanly supply the extra amplifiaction required is not at all surprising.
 
Have to agree with Bruce on this one. Making assumptions based on connector is a path to trouble. Cameras in general have a lot better audio than they used to, but the bar for what is normal has also moved up. They are probably expecting a condenser mic since that is probably 90%+ of what people connect. The person answering your question though did have their brain case firmly up their backside. This is not a brand compatibility issue, it is a noisy preamp issue. With a high gain mic (does Sony even make a dynamic today?) you don't notice that the preamp is marginal. When you stick a dynamic that needs a lot of clean gain in the chain you start to see the problems of the preamp.

So as far as solutions go. You can go with a preamp for the mic, or go with a higher gain mic. You can still use a dynamic, but get one of the newer "rare earth" models that have outputs similar to condensers. Or change cameras.

The choice is really up to you. You can also decide to go with what you have and compensate. Mic closer, record more dead air for noise prints, etc.

It's only a "problem" if you don't work around it.
 
I wondered why you prefer the MD42? I have done some tests with the MD46 and if it is held well and pointed in the right direction, it sounds really good.
 
Bruce Watson said:
Yes. It's a dynamic microphone, and you had to crank the volume on the camera to get a reasonable signal level. This put stress on the cheap micpres in the camera resulting in audible preamp hiss. This is the expected behavior.

The "cure" for this is to use a field mixer with good mic preamps (that's kinda/sorta what happens when you use your plug on transmitter which has a preamp designed for dynamic mics) or second system sound (which is best). Or... use a condenser mic powered by the camera's phantom power system. Any of these will alleviate this symptom.

Personally I use a SD MixPre-D field mixer. You won't believe the improved sound quality until you try one. Especially with a mic like the MD46. Although I'd want an MD42 instead for almost any use.
Click to expand...


I wondered why you prefer the MD42? I have done some tests with the MD46 and if it is held well and pointed in the right direction, it sounds really good
 
RichardfromLondon said:
I wondered why you prefer the MD42? I have done some tests with the MD46 and if it is held well and pointed in the right direction, it sounds really good.
Click to expand...

There's nothing wrong with the sound of a properly used MD46. Yet, omnis are almost always used. Why? Because directional mics exhibit proximity effect, and because they have a pattern. Omni mics have neither, and when handheld this gives omnis a huge advantage.

The implications: First, it takes a lot more training for talent to use a directional mic. They have to learn that they can't just turn their head and keep talking -- they have to turn their shoulders too to ensure that they don't take their voice out-of-pattern. Then they have to actually do it, and this is much harder for them than you'd think. They've got other things to think about while they are working after all.

But if you think that's bad, they also have to keep the mic trained on the interviewee, who hasn't been trained and probably can't be. So talent gets the job of boom pole operator, chasing the interviewee with the mic. It takes a gifted interviewer to make that look natural.

But wait, it gets worse. Proximity effect can be a PITA. It means that not only do you have to keep your mic pointed in the right direction and turning and moving with a talking head, but you also have to maintain the same distance from that talking head.

You'll understand this better after you've spent a miserable post session (or two, or three, or...) trying to compensate for people going out-of-pattern and for variable proximity effect. Not what I'd call fun.

Unless the background noise is very high (think World Cup stadium level), an omni does just fine and doesn't introduce any of the problems of a directional mic. And if you're in the middle of that much noise, a headset with a boom mic at the corner of the mouth is just fine. Which is what broadcasters have been using for this duty for quite a while now.

If you look at the mics people are using for reporter interviews, at local, regional, and national levels, you find nearly all of it is done with EV RE50Ns, and Senn. MD42s. All over NA and Europe. Don't take my word for it, watch a little of the local/national news wherever you are and see what's actually being used.
 
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