PRO RES 4:2:2 codec - New From Apple

David Saraceno

David Saraceno

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Staff member
It is still sketchy but this new codec is 10 bit 4:2:2 with full raster and edit friendly.

Converts uncompressed or SD formats on the fly and automatically. For example an uncompressed 1 TB project is converted to highest quality at 170GB.

Motion now is fully integrated and editable from within FCP, and includes true 3D lights, particles, cameras, and dozens of GPU accelerated effects.

Not positive on every detail, but the big news at least is the 4:2:2 codec that "appears" to look every bit as good as uncompressed.

More . . .
 
Can anybody confirm FCP6 will edit MXF natively?

"With native support for virtually any format, Final Cut Pro lets you edit everything from uncompressed SD to HDV, DVCPRO HD, and uncompressed HD — as well as Panasonic P2 and Sony XDCAM HD tapeless formats."
 
Man Motion 3 is going to be the sickest. I love Motion, so this about made me cry when I read all the updates from Mike Curtis' blog. I can't freakin' wait.

But yeah, this codec is weird as heck. 1tb to 170gb? That's infreaking sane.
 
Native editing for P2 at 1080i 50/60/VFR and 720p 24/24N/25/25N/30/VFR from P2 cards
1080pA 24 (Advanced Pulldown) supported via FireWire from AJ-HD1200A and AJ-HD1400
P2 import dialog with browse, mark, and background ingest.
 
David S. said:
Can anybody confirm FCP6 will edit MXF natively?

"With native support for virtually any format, Final Cut Pro lets you edit everything from uncompressed SD to HDV, DVCPRO HD, and uncompressed HD — as well as Panasonic P2 and Sony XDCAM HD tapeless formats."
Click to expand...



In a word, No. From Apples FCP 6.0 page: http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/finalcutpro/support.html

-----------------------
Tapeless formats
It’s easy to work with the latest high-speed, tapeless devices from Panasonic and Sony. Use the Log and Transfer function in Final Cut Pro for ingesting Panasonic P2 files or Sony’s free XDCAM Transfer software for ingesting 18-, 25-, and 35-Mbps XDCAM HD footage. Preview shots before you bring them in, add In and Out points, and incorporate metadata before you transfer files to save time when you get to the edit. Ingest tapeless files in the background at high speeds while you continue to edit or preview other material.
-------

But on the same page under Camera-native editing:

Final Cut Pro 6 lets you edit virtually anything natively. That means you’ll get pristine quality from the first cut to the final output. Final Cut Pro doesn't’t need to transcode video from camera-native formats — no matter whether it’s coming from a DV, HDV, or DVCPRO HD camera. Your output will always be as stunning as your original source. Final Cut Pro 6 supports a wide range of standard- and high-definition formats.

Standard Definition High Definition
DV, DVCPRO, DVCAM HDV
DVCPRO 50, IMX DVCPRO HD, XDCAM HD
Uncompressed 8- and 10-bit SD Uncompressed 8- and 10-bit HD


So it is basically still unwrapping the MXF file and leaving it in untouched DVCPRO HD. So as I see it, you still have to waste time unwrapping it, even though I don't think a pixel is changed of what was originally in the capture, which really sucks. Plus you have to make the executive decision to either keep or dump the MXF file after confirming your import.

Arghhhh. This one last thing really peeves me since FCP would be perfect if you did not have to do this.
 
There seems to be contradictory info on the Apple site, it does mention native mxf at one point. But in order to do that, wouldn't it first have to go through a logging procedure to join together multiple files into large clips anyways? Maybe that's what the logging does, or maybe the bit about "native editing" is misleading.
 
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Yeah the website is misleading, but if you have to go through the P2import process, then you are essence importing twice. Once from P2 to drive, and once more from Drive into FCP.

So until I see that I can just drop the MXFs into a FCP Bin with out the P2 importer, then PCs still have an advantage. And this is coming from a 20+year Apple/Mac lifer. Sigh....

I mean realistically, at some point you have to rename the clips, but I would still rather just do it in FCP like any other .mov file and have FCP create the link to the original file.

Now maybe the new P2 importer has a little check box that says link, as opposed to unwrap. I doubt it.
 
As of Sunday night, it appears that nothing is clear on what is available for MXF natively with FCP6.

Hopefully, a NAB2007er can confirm something this week.
 
Sure it would be nice if the logging wasn't required, but in the grand scheme of things, the time required to wrap the files into QT containers isn't that big a deal -- you spend alot more time working with the video, reviewing, rendering etc. than ingesting it. Also, there is no across-the-board advantage on the PC, how MXF files are handled is specific to the implementation of the NLEs.

The extra storage requirements bother me more, since you should consider the MXF files your negatives/originals.
 
Agreed. The extra storage is what gets me as well. And it's not like it's good extra storage, either. I honestly would rather be working from raw MXF files like the Edius system does, but I guess we can't have everything.

This new codec sure sounds like a charm though. Has anyone found out more info on how it managed to compress so well? Implementations for Hydra?
 
Kholi said:
This new codec sure sounds like a charm though. Has anyone found out more info on how it managed to compress so well?
Click to expand...

it sounds the same as Avid DNxHD 145 and DNxHD 220. according to the web site there are two versions of ProRes 422. ProRes 422 which runs at 145mb/sec and ProRes 422 (HQ) which runs at 220mb/sec. just like DNxHD.

I don't know how they do it, but I do know that I cannot see a difference between uncompressed and DNxHD 220. i'm sure the Apple ProRes (HQ) is just as good.
 
I've got a meeting with Apple on Monday morning and will raise the P2/native MXF question. I suspect that it still rewraps MXF into QT but will know the answer soon.

Ned Soltz
 
ohh thank you so much, my guess is that if they did add better support, we may be able to import each p2 volume into the bin and it would do wrapping auto and just put a folder with the name of the volume and the clips within, maybe then not making duplicate files in qt, using the folders like scratch.

either way it is not that bad, but from the little video on the FCP6 page, they discussed a whole new import tool, so maybe they increased the speed and capacity of the import tool
 
I went to the Panasonic press conference, and they set aside time for Apple actually at the Panasonic press conference. So I sat there waiting patiently for him to announce "native MXF support on the timeline." He talked on and on about how great a partnership Apple and Panasonic have, how Apple created the desktop editing HD system with their DVCPRO-HD support and how Panasonic did their part by including firewire on an HD deck, and on and on. So by now I've got baited breath, waiting to jump up and cheer when they announce native MXF editing, right?

Nothin'. He finished up and walked off the stage. No mention of new support in FCP6, no MXF editing.

Ain't gonna happen. Thanks a lot, Apple.
 
Yeah, I'm about ready to give up the fight. Seems like Apple users really don't care. And Apple certainly doesn't care. I'm the only one screaming, and I'm the guy who doesn't even use the Mac!

Something tells me that when Apple users are waiting half an hour to import a 32GB card, whereas the guy next to 'em on Avid or Premiere or Vegas or Axio or EDIUS or Liquid or Leitch or ... well, just about any other editor ... is already done with their edit and moved on, well, I predict Apple users still won't care because hey, at least they're using a Mac, right?

Man this was disappointing. Forgive the bitterness, please, but -- fer cryin' out loud. You FCP guys don't know what you're missing. :)
 
Sorry! I was still under the impression that you had to use Raylight for Premiere or Vegas. Though Avid is pretty much a drop in the folder, right?

Maybe there Is something I'm missing... but Final Cut Studio 2 really looks... worth missing it.
 
You do have to use raylight, but now it lets you drop mxf's straight to the timeline without converting. And you can write back to the card.

Avid was a little weird from what I have read, but it seems they made it right on how you get your mxf's into the timeline with the new update announced at nab.

EDIUS is just... the way it should be. So effortless to work with p2. The P2 workflow and EDIUS go togethor like pb&j. I had 81 minutes of footage that I shot on two cams. yesterday. Took me about 20 minutes to offload all the footage. But, I didn't even have to wait that long to start working with the footage, because you can work off the card while it is being written to the HDD. Then, it is relinked to the HDD location when the transfer is complete. Effortless.

Apple's got me drooling with all of this stuff they can do, but then stabbed me with this news. It *almost* defeats the purpose of tapeless workflows if you have to spend your time converting. Especially (as Barry mentioned) when card sizes get bigger.

Right now, it's about 4-5 minutes for an 8 gig card to transfer for me. It's about 15 seconds for me before I can start editing the footage. Stick it in the lappy's pcmcia and go.

Geez, got off on a tangent a bit. :)

Jason
 
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