Pricing F5 F55

As a prospective buyer does it make any sense to buy a f55 for 30 grand body only, when an epic is 19k?
The answer is a big no. Sony compete with your competition. Do it. Price the f55 the same as the epic and all new buyers go your route. Plain and simple. The more over you go the more customers you don't gain.
Oh well.
 
DendriteStudios said:
As a prospective buyer does it make any sense to buy a f55 for 30 grand body only, when an epic is 19k?
The answer is a big no. Sony compete with your competition. Do it. Price the f55 the same as the epic and all new buyers go your route. Plain and simple. The more over you go the more customers you don't gain.
Oh well.
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Is Arri trying to compete with RED price-wise? Why would Sony?
 
petermullett said:
Yes, but......
Laying out $30K every couple of years or so. That's one thing. One has to ask if our "rental to ourselves" can cover that outlay before we start moving into the black.
What will the F3 realistically be worth next year when the F5 / F55 are available? That "loss" has to be factored in too.
Most producers / clients are going to want the newest shiniest camera on their gigs regardless as to whether their "improved specs' " are needed or not. Even if as I believe the F3 will be able to produce perfectly acceptable images for some time to come, with the F5 and F55 now on the map the F3 does become Sony's "yesterday's camera" whether we like it or not.
However the F3 will continue to do a lot of the experimental and speculative work I like to do on my own dime, and that's it's real ongoing value for me but I am pretty sure that any upcoming commercial / dramatic / TV work will request a "newer" piece of kit......and that I will rent per gig because in my case it makes better financial sense.
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You've got stronger will power than I do, Peter. I agree- the new stuff sucks for owner/operators' operating cost, but it's awesome for the reel.
 
truelife said:
You've got stronger will power than I do, Peter. I agree- the new stuff sucks for owner/operators' operating cost, but it's awesome for the reel.
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Just being realistic from my point of view that's all.
I recall that after I sold my Aaton 35III but still had shoots that required that camera or other 35's I actually found that I made "real money" on the rentals. Our local camera rental house gave DP's a 10% discount on the rates, but of course we all charged the clients the book rental price, and the clients / production companies had to provide the insurance cert' coverage too. Nice "clear" money without having to look at idle gear when one's phone wasn't ringing.
I see the proliferation of new gear rolling in every year being a good thing for well run camera rental houses. They are more likely to get the capital camera costs covered much sooner than owner operators will, the cameras simply work more often when rented out to many clients.
 
DendriteStudios said:
Arri isn't in the owner/operator bracket. They clearly aren't and don't intend to be. Sony is, has been, and will be. If you want to penetrate the owner/operator market then do so.
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Just because Sony has lower end products doesn't mean products like the F35, F65 and F55 are supposed to be in the owner/operator bracket as you call it.
 
DendriteStudios said:
Arri isn't in the owner/operator bracket. They clearly aren't and don't intend to be. Sony is, has been, and will be. If you want to penetrate the owner/operator market then do so.
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You kiding me...When the Alexa came out, alot of owner/operators bought them. And they paid for themselves rather quickly. Now, though, it would take a while to pay it off...everyone has them now, rentals and operators.
There "are" people that can afford that level of investment.
As for Sony, if they get the price right and the image is astounding, they might become the flavor of the year. Which is good for first adopters owner/operators! Rental houses are the ones which will be worried, because we now can afford to own the cameras that preform like the ones everyone aspires to rent.
 
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DendriteStudios said:
As a prospective buyer does it make any sense to buy a f55 for 30 grand body only, when an epic is 19k?
The answer is a big no. Sony compete with your competition. Do it. Price the f55 the same as the epic and all new buyers go your route. Plain and simple. The more over you go the more customers you don't gain.
Oh well.
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I would not use RED as a measuring stick for what a camera should cost. They pride themselves on being disruptive in both design and in the business end of things. This is apparent in the price of the original RED ONE - a prototype a year after release - was being sold for what I believe was barely above manufacturing cost. They could do that because JJ doesnt need the money as much as he needs the pride of success. They have achieved a lot at RED and I will tip my hat to them for that - but the model is not long term sustainable if it is going to finance new technologies down the road. The companies that develop core technologies need to have a profit for both personal motivation and to pay for new R&D. It's always been up to us to design our part of the business into something that will work with the cost of the professional tools we demand. Collectively, we we need to establish rates that allow us to demand AND pay for new technologies or we will all be shooting with GH2's and GoPros in a few years. I would spend less energy beating up camera manufacturers to make it cheaper and more time encouraging them to keep innovating so we all have something to look forward to.

When I was regularly shooting, I lived by this view. I always had the most capable and expensive cameras and some potential customers would laugh at my rates. After they found a cheap shooter with a cheap camera - they would often come back looking for better quality and they adjusted their budget to accommodate. Of course, many would be content with lower quality and I would not chase them to the bottom. If our clients could not afford what we offered, they are the wrong clients. I was NEVER once starved for customers. Giving up the penny pinching customers gave the time I needed to attract the juicy ones.
 
DendriteStudios said:
Arri isn't in the owner/operator bracket. They clearly aren't and don't intend to be. Sony is, has been, and will be. If you want to penetrate the owner/operator market then do so.
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I would say the majority of Alexas are owned by individuals. Don't know for sure.....but I personally know MANY MANY individuals that own their Alexa packages.
 
Hi Carlos,
I suspect the old business model for operator/owner of cameras has changed. If you were an early adapter of the Red 1 or Alexa you did very well on kit hires and rentals. If you are a recent buyer of an Epic or Alexa- you probably have buyers remorse for lack of realized rental income. If you were an early adapter of an F65- you're probably in a panic. I was about to buy an F65, but couldn't sign the contract. Loved the image but no commercial or feature producer I've worked with before was interested in the post workflow issues of the F65. It's all Alexa and Epic now.

The F55 and C500 potentially occupy the fat middle ground for 2K-4K production. If the F55 works as well as it should, I'd choose it over the Epic and C500. If Sony prices the F55 towards Alexa territory- sorry, but everyone I work with including myself will go Alexa with and without an outboard recorder.

Personally I feel camera ownership not to my advantage, unless a project can pay for it, and I can sell the camera soon after. I've been doing that for a couple of years now, when production didn't go Red or now Alexa. The BMCC is interesting because of the bundled software- early feedback looks promising for image quality. But one really needs to choose the right tool (functionality, cost, post workflow) for the project. The pace of technology makes it harder to put down a lot of money for a camera.

Lenses on the other hand...
 
klk said:
Personally I feel camera ownership not to my advantage, unless a project can pay for it, and I can sell the camera soon after.

Lenses on the other hand...
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You go that right on! Every project/client/director/location/post path combo needs a different approach. Buying a camera and shoehorning it into all available jobs is not practical. Things change way too fast.
 
The suggested U.S. LIST pricing for the new products, planned to be available in February, are:


  • PMW-F5 CineAlta 4K Camera $19,400
  • PMW-F55 CineAlta 4K Camera $34,900
  • AXR-R5 RAW Recorder $6,300
  • AXS-512S24 512Gb Memory Card $2,100
  • AXS-CR1 card reader $660.00
  • DVF -EL100 OLED Viewfinder $5,800
  • DVF-F350 3.5” LCD Viewfinder $3,800
  • DVF-L700 LCD viewfinder $5,000
  • SCL-PK6/F PL mount six lens package $24,600
  • SCL-PK3/F PL mount three lens package $13,600

http://community.sony.com/t5/F5-F55/PRICING/td-p/37285
 
Fotojorno said:
The suggested U.S. LIST pricing for the new products, planned to be available in February, are:


  • PMW-F5 CineAlta 4K Camera $19,400
  • PMW-F55 CineAlta 4K Camera $34,900
  • AXR-R5 RAW Recorder $6,300
  • AXS-512S24 512Gb Memory Card $2,100
  • AXS-CR1 card reader $660.00
  • DVF -EL100 OLED Viewfinder $5,800
  • DVF-F350 3.5” LCD Viewfinder $3,800
  • DVF-L700 LCD viewfinder $5,000
  • SCL-PK6/F PL mount six lens package $24,600
  • SCL-PK3/F PL mount three lens package $13,600

http://community.sony.com/t5/F5-F55/PRICING/td-p/37285
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Right on and right where many of us expected it... well except for may the the F55 which alot of us only speculated costing $10k more. $14k is a lot of beans,...
 
Fotojorno said:
The suggested U.S. LIST pricing for the new products, planned to be available in February, are:


  • PMW-F5 CineAlta 4K Camera $19,400
  • PMW-F55 CineAlta 4K Camera $34,900
  • AXR-R5 RAW Recorder $6,300
  • AXS-512S24 512Gb Memory Card $2,100
  • AXS-CR1 card reader $660.00
  • DVF -EL100 OLED Viewfinder $5,800
  • DVF-F350 3.5” LCD Viewfinder $3,800
  • DVF-L700 LCD viewfinder $5,000
  • SCL-PK6/F PL mount six lens package $24,600
  • SCL-PK3/F PL mount three lens package $13,600

http://community.sony.com/t5/F5-F55/PRICING/td-p/37285
Click to expand...



The F55 pricing make it more than I was willing to spend. Once you factor in the OLED VF, batts, shoulder mount, SxS Pro cards, new card reader, etc, this camera be heading north toward $50K
 
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