Pricing F5 F55

Much cheaper than I would have guessed. Question is what will happen with the F3? Lower prices or added features in the 1.5FW? By just looking at the F5 price it would make sense if the F5 replaced the F3 but these two that close don't make much sense.
 
Duke M. said:
I know they haven't released US prices or street prices yet, but the F55 seems way too high. At $6k higher as a couple people estimated it was a no brainer. At $12k higher its not something I can even consider.
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Well, would you consider an Alexa? Probably not.

Again people are forgetting that this is Sony's answer to the Arri Alexa. Have you seen how much the Alexa costs? It doesn't make sense wanting Sony to give it to you for much less than the camera they are competing with. Sony was already mindful enough to give you a lower cost version of the F55 in the F5 but this is not enough I guess.

Duke M. said:
My opinion matches that of a few others here that the F55 is too high.
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Of course it matches. It matches mine too. I wished the Alexa was also only 6K higher too, but I can wish it till my brain is dry and it wont happen. It's a matter of market. People who use the Alexa and can afford them don't care that RED cameras are cheaper.

Duke M. said:
Red made themselves popular, in part by promising cheaper cameras.
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And you can feel that just by handling a RED One or Epic and then handling an Alexa or F65. The RED is not only cheaper it also feels cheaper. Horses for courses. RED cuts a lot of production corners to manufacturer their cameras in China, India or wherever they make them, which is definitely not in Japan or Germany.
 
well if these prices are anywhere near correct for the USA a quick tally tells me that if I want to step up from the F3 to the F55, ( the F5 just not worth going to in my opinion if you are already a F3 owner ), my cost will be somewhere around $53K for the camera, the LCD EVF, the record back, card reader, and three batteries......A rough tally I admit, and doubtless there's other bits to buy to make the new kit work well that I haven't accounted for.
So, where's the value in doing that?
It's not there for me even though I do like the camera's feature set.
I am not a big fan of the Red, but I am a fan of the Alexa. If I am spending something on the way to $60K for the Sony F55 and feel that I have to own something new to step up from the F3 I think I'd rather squeeze the bank some more and go for the camera that is still the "go to" choice of this industry right now, the Arri........My ridiculous ultimate choice would be the Aaton Delta, but that's a mad thought. I've loved owning and using Aatons from my first LTR........
So, I'd really be interested in what you all think now that the prices have all but filtered out, done the math' yet?
 
petermullett said:
well if these prices are anywhere near correct for the USA a quick tally tells me that if I want to step up from the F3 to the F55, ( the F5 just not worth going to in my opinion if you are already a F3 owner ), my cost will be somewhere around $53K for the camera, the LCD EVF, the record back, card reader, and three batteries......A rough tally I admit, and doubtless there's other bits to buy to make the new kit work well that I haven't accounted for.
So, where's the value in doing that?
It's not there for me even though I do like the camera's feature set.
I am not a big fan of the Red, but I am a fan of the Alexa. If I am spending something on the way to $60K for the Sony F55 and feel that I have to own something new to step up from the F3 I think I'd rather squeeze the bank some more and go for the camera that is still the "go to" choice of this industry right now, the Arri........My ridiculous ultimate choice would be the Aaton Delta, but that's a mad thought. I've loved owning and using Aatons from my first LTR........
So, I'd really be interested in what you all think now that the prices have all but filtered out, done the math' yet?
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If you already have an F3, then rent F55 when you need those new features, think that will be reasonable.
 
Main advantage F3-F5 will probably the smaller size and 10-bit internal recording. Maybe wont give better footage but an easier camera to rig and operate. On the other hand with an external recorder shooting prores this is still better when delivering material to the post house. I'll stick with the F3 for now.
 
petermullett said:
I am not a big fan of the Red, but I am a fan of the Alexa. If I am spending something on the way to $60K for the Sony F55 and feel that I have to own something new to step up from the F3 I think I'd rather squeeze the bank some more and go for the camera that is still the "go to" choice of this industry right now, the Arri........My ridiculous ultimate choice would be the Aaton Delta, but that's a mad thought. I've loved owning and using Aatons from my first LTR...
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Well, 60k would probably get you a fully kitted out F55 that's ready to shoot, but it's only enough to get you an Alexa body with viewfinder. Going by Abel Cine prices, a starter kit is actually around 90k. That's a lot of squeezing to do...

The Delta appears to be a direct competitor to the Alexa Studio and F65, but all those cameras are roughly $120k each, which is way beyond what anyone here is likely to own, unless they won the lottery.
 
petermullett said:
well if these prices are anywhere near correct for the USA a quick tally tells me that if I want to step up from the F3 to the F55, ( the F5 just not worth going to in my opinion if you are already a F3 owner ), my cost will be somewhere around $53K for the camera (etc)
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My thinking leans towards Peter's and FilmDude's at this point. Even if you lop off the recorder, you will still be staring down the barrel of a $35K purchase w/ body. EVF, 3 batts, reader and small bits of jazz. Even with the body only you are probably at $30K out the door, if the pricing translates as it appears to USD.

The fully kitted price is way too close to the Alexa. If you are going to go that high in purchase price, the smart business thing to do would be to get an Alexa and get into the rental game (if you don't already).

Anyway, the pricing isn't out yet and as someone said earlier, when the F3 pricing came out there was a huge chorus of booing from the potential buyers and the minimum advertised price dropped significiantly. Most of us at launch still thought the F3 was still priced too high.

It is good to remember though a couple of things the F55 has going for it which could create significant interest that breaks the price issue and that is global shutter and efficient and supposidly decent compressed codecs for 4K and slomo capture.

I still maintain they should target $19,995 for the F55 body to get the kind of sales and industry interest that the C300 has, as well as lure the RED crowd into their camp.
 
Andrew Stone said:
The fully kitted price is way too close to the Alexa.
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Where are people getting this price? 'cause that's where I want to shop! (assuming they are getting their Arris for 60k) The original Alexa is $50k just for the body, with "body, EVF, 3 batts, reader and small bits of jazz" an Alexa is going to be way more expensive.
nkerezov said:
If it's all perfect as on a paper, why should F55 be cheaper than Alexa?
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Because when the Alexa came out, Arri had no competition, they could set whichever price they wanted.
 
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Andrew Stone said:
My thinking leans towards Peter's and FilmDude's at this point. Even if you lop off the recorder, you will still be staring down the barrel of a $35K purchase w/ body. EVF, 3 batts, reader and small bits of jazz. Even with the body only you are probably at $30K out the door, if the pricing translates as it appears to USD.

The fully kitted price is way too close to the Alexa. If you are going to go that high in purchase price, the smart business thing to do would be to get an Alexa and get into the rental game (if you don't already).

Anyway, the pricing isn't out yet and as someone said earlier, when the F3 pricing came out there was a huge chorus of booing from the potential buyers and the minimum advertised price dropped significiantly. Most of us at launch still thought the F3 was still priced too high.

It is good to remember though a couple of things the F55 has going for it which could create significant interest that breaks the price issue and that is global shutter and efficient and supposidly decent compressed codecs for 4K and slomo capture.

I still maintain they should target $19,995 for the F55 body to get the kind of sales and industry interest that the C300 has, as well as lure the RED crowd into their camp.
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On board with what Andrew says here.....and I wasn't saying that I'd bypass the F55 to find the extra funds to buy an Alexa, I couldn't justify either purchase even if wanted to. However I know for a fact that the Arri is the rental camera of choice in my area, ( DC / Baltimore ), much more so than the Red.
Also any money spent above a certain level justifies renting, not owning in my experience, especially when you consider that there's a new camera going to appear in a few years down the road now. There's different levels, tolerances of spending, for each individual. Mine stops at around $20K excluding lenses. Above that if I need more than the F3 delivers I rent per gig.
 



Because when the Alexa came out, Arri had no competition, they could set whichever price they wanted.[/QUOTE]

This is what I mean, what if Sony is moving it at the next level?
 
Another point to remember is that the F5 is a closer match to the Alexa spec-wise, than the F55.
 
I too am concerned that the F55 will be a bit too pricey- though the specs are awesome and seem to make it a contender for 3-4 years. I also know that after all was said and done, outfitting my F3 put me at or over $30k. This included Shape BP-6000 ($2k at the time), PIX240 setup, Optitek Nikon adapter, Nikon lenses (all adjusted by Duclos), TV-Logic 5.6 monitor, Alphatron EVF, Solid Camera EVF arm, various Zacuto mounts, Anton Bauer batteries and D-Tap accessories, various power cables, O-Box Mattebox.

Point is, it adds up. Most of that will either be useful on the F5 or 55 or has been sold off to accomodate the new cameras, both of which incorporate all of these extra elements that ended up inhibiting the shooting with the F3. Having all the crap hanging off the camera (EVF and recorder) was just annoying. I'm not saying I'd be willing to drop $30k again, but it doesn't feel as intimidating or surprising having gone through the process with the F3. If the camera gets enough use it won't hurt you to sell it at 65-75% cost in a few years.
 
truelife said:
I too am concerned that the F55 will be a bit too pricey- though the specs are awesome and seem to make it a contender for 3-4 years. I also know that after all was said and done, outfitting my F3 put me at or over $30k. This included Shape BP-6000 ($2k at the time), PIX240 setup, Optitek Nikon adapter, Nikon lenses (all adjusted by Duclos), TV-Logic 5.6 monitor, Alphatron EVF, Solid Camera EVF arm, various Zacuto mounts, Anton Bauer batteries and D-Tap accessories, various power cables, O-Box Mattebox.

Point is, it adds up. Most of that will either be useful on the F5 or 55 or has been sold off to accomodate the new cameras, both of which incorporate all of these extra elements that ended up inhibiting the shooting with the F3. Having all the crap hanging off the camera (EVF and recorder) was just annoying. I'm not saying I'd be willing to drop $30k again, but it doesn't feel as intimidating or surprising having gone through the process with the F3. If the camera gets enough use it won't hurt you to sell it at 65-75% cost in a few years.
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Yes, but......
Laying out $30K every couple of years or so. That's one thing. One has to ask if our "rental to ourselves" can cover that outlay before we start moving into the black.
What will the F3 realistically be worth next year when the F5 / F55 are available? That "loss" has to be factored in too.
Most producers / clients are going to want the newest shiniest camera on their gigs regardless as to whether their "improved specs' " are needed or not. Even if as I believe the F3 will be able to produce perfectly acceptable images for some time to come, with the F5 and F55 now on the map the F3 does become Sony's "yesterday's camera" whether we like it or not.
However the F3 will continue to do a lot of the experimental and speculative work I like to do on my own dime, and that's it's real ongoing value for me but I am pretty sure that any upcoming commercial / dramatic / TV work will request a "newer" piece of kit......and that I will rent per gig because in my case it makes better financial sense.
 
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