Pricing F5 F55

sebben said:
Do you guys rent out your gear?

I wouldn't rent a $20k+ camera to someone for $750 a day so that I can pick up the repair bill in the end...
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Plenty of us do. It can reduce your cost of ownership, and can keep food on the table if your freelancing hits a rough patch.

This is what certificates of insurance are for. Rent to people you know and trust, and who can provide insurance, or are otherwise "good for it."

There's absolutely some risk involved, but that's part of why you charge $500 or $750 instead of $150 - you make enough to cover the extraneous wear and tear.

Life is risk - even the stock market has good days and bad days.
 
Viddovation said:
Plenty of us do. It can reduce your cost of ownership, and can keep food on the table if your freelancing hits a rough patch.

This is what certificates of insurance are for. Rent to people you know and trust, and who can provide insurance, or are otherwise "good for it."

There's absolutely some risk involved, but that's part of why you charge $500 or $750 instead of $150 - you make enough to cover the extraneous wear and tear.

Life is risk - even the stock market has good days and bad days.
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+1 on this... either get the insurrance or have people sign a contract make them liable for what ever repairs they cause the need to get. You could earn in the camera over a couple of years, especially with your own work included.
 
It's worth noting here that standalone insurance products can be expensive, but typically, you can get cheap inland marine coverage for rental equipment on an annual basis as an endorsement on an existing business insurance policy. I was able to get $35,000 in rented equipment insurance for $150 annually, attached to my business policy. An online vendor wanted about $500 for the same coverage by itself.
 
I spent many years renting $50k - $250k camera packages and made a ton of money doing it. They were all professional systems that were designed for hard use day in and day out. Repairs were minimal, we required insurance, and it all worked fine. When someone wanted something cheaper - they could always go to a catalog superstore and buy pro-sumer gear and deal with the consequences of that decision be it good or bad.

The constant demand for gear to be as cheap as possible does not push the industry in the right direction as a business. Professional gear should not be compared to mega volume cell phones that are sold in lots of millions. What we need is equipment and software that allows us to communicate stories with the world. The gear needs to be robust, high-performance, reliable, and flexible all at the same time. You are not really paying for the plastic and transistors that make up the camera - but all the human intelligence that went into it. On top of that - the profits from today's models have to finance the extraordinary cost of the next whizz-bang feature that we all demand.

I have spent the past two decades seeking out the clients that are willing to pay for high-quality gear and talent. That leaves me with no available energy to worry about pennies and nickles.
 
In my experience, $3K to $5K cameras are cheap and plentiful enough that often if the job is at that level, production is not ashamed to lump rate in with camera rental. My view is that if they're that cheap, they can get the camera from somewhere else and leave my personal gear out of it. I attempt to steer clear of those jobs anyway, there's usually other problems with them.

And on the topic of rentals, I don't rent my gear out much to other folks, but I do on occasion. More importantly, the going rate for a camera is what I charge production for my camera on my own jobs. So it's important that the real rental market for the camera doesn't slide into the swamp.
 
Had a good laugh reading this thread.

sebben said:
No beef guys, :Drogar-Happy(DBG):I am surprised that everybody is so willing to defend the pricing though.
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Generally because people don't pay for it directly, their Clients do. Dont expect to be shooting F55 or even F5 on a DSLR budget. Think of it in these terms - you dont own a camera, you need to rent. Client A calls and says I want XYZ. Our budget is $pennys. Client B calls and says I want XYZ. Our budget is $enoughtocreateasolidproduction. Only one of those has options and it isnt client A.

Owner operators should be thinking in these terms. They often dont to everyones detriment. I had a guy call me months back, I offered up the C300 for the shoot based on what he was telling me (from where I stood it actually was the better option as he needed a super quick turnaround). I got a no on that job because he knew what a Red Epic was and the guy he called before me had given up the game and offered everything for $pennys. He actually said to me, I like your stuff can you do it for the same price... I said no, better call the Epic guy.

truelife said:
I was told by Abel today that they expect pricing tomorrow.
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Thats all anyone needs to know really from this entire thread. Mitch or Andy will give us prices when they have them.
 
truelife said:
I was told by Abel today that they expect pricing tomorrow.
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That would be almost 2 years to the day the F3 pricing was announced.


sebben said:
I am surprised that everybody is so willing to defend the pricing though.
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Overly simply put, the lower the price, the more volatile the market. I've had enough the last 4 years, would appreciate some stability so I can retire. Next big purchase after F5/55 is expensive glass, that should be fine for 10 years or more.
 
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Noel Evans said:
Owner operators should be thinking in these terms. They often dont to everyones detriment. I had a guy call me months back, I offered up the C300 for the shoot based on what he was telling me (from where I stood it actually was the better option as he needed a super quick turnaround). I got a no on that job because he knew what a Red Epic was and the guy he called before me had given up the game and offered everything for $pennys. He actually said to me, I like your stuff can you do it for the same price... I said no, better call the Epic guy.
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It's hard to plan against this type of development eh...? Denmark is a small country, but has a vibrant film / video community. Especially around Copenhagen...
The problem arises as paid jobs are more and more getting sucked up by "kids" who can borrow REDs, Master and Ultra Primes for projects, as long as those projects don't earn them any money.... the problem is.. those free jobs... are actually made for professionals in the end.
Upcoming and established bands are being pampered with expensive productions because the community is doing "good deeds" and tossing in the gear with a hefty rebate.
I've seen small business clients being offered RED productions even though the end product might not end up looking like much because the kid saw gear before idea. He might as well have done it in prores to do a quick turn around... but all they see is RED RED RED... raw raw raw.

How the hell does one protect oneself against this? Like you say, they like the product... but the other product has a price they like more.
 
For the 7th time, Sony is announcing the camera on the 28th in LA. Price will be announced there unless it leaks earlier.
 
It is entirely possible that dealers have been sent pricing. Press has not been sent pricing, meaning Sony is not ready to release information yet. I am going with the 28th right now.

Ned
 
But we all NEED to know now! There is $30k burning a hole in my pocket and if I don't spend it on a new camera in the next 24 hours, I might just blow it on coke and strippers :)
 
According to Peter C. from Sony (posted on their forum), list prices will be released next Tuesday (11/27).

All,

List pricing will be announced next Tuesday, and posted here

Regards

Peter
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Prendi said:
But we all NEED to know now! There is $30k burning a hole in my pocket and if I don't spend it on a new camera in the next 24 hours, I might just blow it on coke and strippers :)
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Nice comparison. It would probably be more enjoyable. Quicker though.:2vrolijk_08:
 
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