Robert M Wright
Well-known member
I would be mildly surprised if it offers uncompressed audio.
Press Release: HMC150, "the new DVX"
- Thread starter Barry_Green
- Start date
BobDiaz
The Professor
From a software standpoint, uncompressed audio is easy to do.
In fact, it takes more code to do compressed audio.
As far as memory, 48k samples per second x 2 bytes per sample (16 bits per sample) x 2 channels = 192kB of memory per second. (kB = kilo-Bytes and kb = kilo-bits: There are 8 bit to a byte.)
192kB per second x 60 seconds per minute x 60 minutes per hour = 691,200kB per hour or 691.2MB per hour or 0.6912GB per hour. (Notice that I use /1,000 rather than the computer's /1024. This makes it easier to see and understand the results.) So this is not even 1 GB of Flash memory for 1 hour of audio.
I could be wrong in my guess about Panasonic offering this feature, but it costs Panasonic NOTHING to add uncompressed audio. Adding this feature puts the camera a step above HDV cameras which use compressed audio. IF Panasonic offers the user a menu choice of uncompressed audio or compressed audio, the user can have it either way.
We'll see soon, only 3 weeks to NAB...
Best Wishes,
Bob Diaz
In fact, it takes more code to do compressed audio.
As far as memory, 48k samples per second x 2 bytes per sample (16 bits per sample) x 2 channels = 192kB of memory per second. (kB = kilo-Bytes and kb = kilo-bits: There are 8 bit to a byte.)
192kB per second x 60 seconds per minute x 60 minutes per hour = 691,200kB per hour or 691.2MB per hour or 0.6912GB per hour. (Notice that I use /1,000 rather than the computer's /1024. This makes it easier to see and understand the results.) So this is not even 1 GB of Flash memory for 1 hour of audio.
I could be wrong in my guess about Panasonic offering this feature, but it costs Panasonic NOTHING to add uncompressed audio. Adding this feature puts the camera a step above HDV cameras which use compressed audio. IF Panasonic offers the user a menu choice of uncompressed audio or compressed audio, the user can have it either way.
We'll see soon, only 3 weeks to NAB...
Best Wishes,
Bob Diaz
Barry_Green
Moderator
Dual slots would be nice, but frankly not nearly as necessary. When the HVX came out, the largest card you could buy (a 4GB card) gave you a maximum of 10 minutes. So multiple slots and hot-swapping were mandatory.
By the time the HMC150 comes out, the largest card (32GB) will give you a maximum of 9 hours(!) of recording time. You could run an entire shoot day on one card, nonstop. So multiple slots would be cool, but if it doesn't have it I don't think it'll be any big deal.
Even with the HVX, swapping is getting to be the exception rather than the rule. I shot for several days at the WMCF on a 200 with two 16GB cards, and I don't think I ever had to swap during the day; 85 minutes of footage was enough to get through the entire shoot day. And with 64GB cards coming up this fall, that'll push it to 5.5 hours in-camera, no swapping necessary. Swapping is rapidly becoming a thing of the past...
Barry_Green
Moderator
Barry_Green
Moderator
Yep, no new announcements. Obviously we expect further details on April 14th when the NAB show opens, but even then I doubt we'll get a "firm" ship date, probably just a vague range (like "this fall" or something).
Robert M Wright
Well-known member
I hear what you are saying about it being easy and costing next to nothing to offer uncompressed audio. There are a lot of nice features that are very easy (and inexpensive) to add, which are left out in lower end cameras, to separate higher end cameras from entry level cameras in a company's lineup.
It just seems to me, that with Panasonic touting DVCPRO HD intraframe compression as a "purest" type feature in the HVX (separating it from camcorders using aruguably inferior intraframe compression codecs) would want to keep that sort of similar separation in audio encoding too.
I'm real curious to see how Panasonic plays their cards with the HMC150. The general speculation seems to be that this camera will be priced significantly lower than the HVX. Yet, assuming Panasonic doesn't dumb it down to severely, it could easily wind up being a superior camera for many purposes (and then likely cut into their sales of HVXs considerably). A combination of better imagers than the HVX, 20+ mbps AVCHD (well implemented) and reasonable manual controls (no yanking out focus rings, and that sort of nonsense), along with recording to inexpensive flash memory cards, would cause a lot of folks to take notice, especially if it's priced under $4k.
Barry_Green
Moderator
That's what I've been asking for, and those are the reasons why. :thumbsup:
Now, with that said, there's not likely any chance that it'll have better imagers than the HVX; if there is a new chipset in the 150, I'd expect to see an upgraded HVX using at least those same chips, know what I mean? So the 150 will likely either use the same chips as the HVX, or they'll both get a "new" chipset, or something along those lines. Anything else just wouldn't make much sense.
The HVX will still have some significant market-differentiating features, such as having the tape drive for those who need it, the variable frame rates, and using the broadcast-industry-standard P2 card system. But for people who don't need those particular features and who are mainly looking for a high-def DVX at a lower price point, the 150 looks like it might be very tasty indeed.
Robert M Wright
Well-known member
It's going to be real interesting to see what Canon eventually comes out with, to compete in the market for pro caliber cameras that record to removable flash memory.
I sure hope they produce something similar to what the XH-A1 offers (price/performance/features wise) in the HDV arena (with a decent viewfinder though).
I sure hope they produce something similar to what the XH-A1 offers (price/performance/features wise) in the HDV arena (with a decent viewfinder though).
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Barry_Green
Moderator
Canon is a member of the AVC-HD group, and has produced flash camcorders already, so I don't think it's far-fetched to think there could be an AVC-HD XHA1 sometime.
William_Robinette
Shallow Member
The biggest thing/request I have is that Panasonic not cripple it intentionally. It would be great to see a big business step up and offer the absolute best performance they can at a certain price point, not concerned with protecting a 2(3?) year old camera. That would be awesome.
Robert M Wright
Well-known member
Canon could easily take the A1 and modify the design by simply replacing the codec with 24mbps AVCHD. They already have an SDHC slot built into the A1 even. Put a decent viewfinder on it, and you have a pretty sweet little camera (at that price point).
One feature the HMC150 will have that the HVX doesn't is HDMI. Most won't use it to record directly to a laptop (or, maybe by then, a CineForm direct-to-disk recorder!), but to a significant minority, HDMI could be extremely useful.
Robert M Wright
Well-known member
AVCHD is 4:2:0 color.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Not in the AVC-HD recordings, no, but yes through the HDMI output.
Barry_Green
Moderator
HDMI recording to a laptop doesn't exist.
That's a lot more likely than laptop recording.
Nektonic
Veteran
I know that the HMC probably won't have one, but something I would like to eventually see in the pro AVC-HD cams would be a built in hard drive in place of the tape drive as well as a slot or two for SD card recording. Canon already has two flash memory AVC-HD cameras that allow both recording methods. So I say, why not eventually approx. 32 - 64 GB internal memory for the pro level cams? If they put in a non-flash hard drive then it could be even higher. 60 - 80 GB would be very nice.
One thing I am looking forward to is the possibility of a nicer hand grip on the HMC. Since they don't have to design the grip around a tape deck, it should be much nicer and comfortable to the user.
Also, if Cineform can pull off their proposed external flash recorder: http://www.cineform.com/products/CineFormRecorder.htm wouldn't Panasonic, Canon, Sony, etc. be able to implement similar technology into later versions of their AVC-HD cameras? It will cost more and will drive up the price of the camera, but why not do something similar to Canon with their A1 / G1 option? So those that don't want to or can't afford the version with the higher quality record method could opt for the standard version. That way we would have more options and cheap tapeless media.
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