PRE PRODUCTION HPX300 Hands On 'review'

Kholi:

How does imager scan rate relate to frame rate? Are they the same? I am just wondering is there a way to expose the imager through the electronic shutter at 24 times per second while having the shutter scan the imager at a much, much higher rate. This is my naivite showing on exactly how a CMOS imager is scanned. Any ideas?

It does seem logical that if there is a way to increase the rate that the imager is scanned, it would minimize or even eliminate all of these side effects.

Dan
 
Oh you're asking the WRONG Gearwhore, Dan. I barely understand it myself and don't pretend to, either. I get all of my info from the same places you do and just try to get my hands on stuff to know what it translates too in the real world.

That's a Barry_G Question!!!
 
LuckyStudio 13 said:
Shame on Panasonic for pushing the absolute wrong tool for the job to those tv stations.
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You know, a statement like this is insulting. The world id full of little trade-offs and no one forces anyone to buy anything. It is a free market. The fact that you think that we forced the TV stations to buy this camera really shows how naive you are. Please.
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
You know, a statement like this is insulting. The world id full of little trade-offs and no one forces anyone to buy anything. It is a free market. The fact that you think that we forced the TV stations to buy this camera really shows how naive you are. Please.
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I am so sorry if my comment was out of line. If I operate a business a news station business (covering events), the last thing that I want is a cmos rolling shutter camera. But then again, what do I know. Only that I used to own and shoot with a rolling shutter cmos cam and I was so glad that I was able to get rid of that commitment and went with a Panasonic CCD cam.

Not to mention, that a business that can pre purchased a bunch of cameras without thoroughly testing a single production model. I am sure they all got a very good rate from Panasonic but again, what do I know, my rationale as a small fish just doesnt make sense for a big business I guess. :huh:
 
LuckyStudio 13 said:
Not to mention, that a business that can pre purchased a bunch of cameras without thoroughly testing a single production model. I am sure they all got a very good rate from Panasonic but again, what do I know, my rationale as a small fish just doesnt make sense for a big business I guess. :huh:
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Frankly they have seen the camera, it is not always about what makes sense to the small business operator. It takes very little testing to check out the wobble jello and partial expose, I had that test done within the first 15 minutes of having the camera, and most of that time waqs trying to hunt down a CF card for the little Nikon I had at work. No tom-foolery in the presetation of this camera to anyone. All eyes wide open and informed in the decision making process. And yes they got a good price but keep in mind they would have gotten a good price on any camera, this one just happened to meet more of the criteria than the other cameras in consideration.

In case you haven't noticed there are lots of happy EX1/3 owners out there. And you know I see the partial exposure stuff more and more often. I saw a bio of Jennifer Aniston the other night and there on the red carpet walk was the partial exposures. Now if I had had that in my footage I think I might have tried something in post to resolve it, but they didn't. Hey if I could have gotter a full raster CCD in this camera I would have, but that just isn't possible, so it has a CMOS.

There was a price point to meet and I think we did a good job of making the HPX300 as feature rich as possible so that many different target customers will be attracted to it.

Best,

Jan
 
I think, upon the discovery of "rolling shutter" phenomenon, I am sure the TV stations will reduce the use of such camera on the field and instead will only pull the camera out on more controlled environment such as in the studio or sit down interviews. I know there are tons of happy rolling shutter CMOS users out there, but I think due to the weakness of the camera sensor design, it is most suitable for controlled environment shooting such as narrative film. I have owned a CMOS rolling shutter cam in the past, call me old skool but you guys can pry away my hpx170 only from my cold dead hands.
 
Here it is--good work Jan!

NBCU Going with Panasonic P2

TVNEWSDAY, Feb 11 2009, 3:27 PM ET


NBC Universal has "standardized" on the Panasonic P2 camcorder format for the NBC O&Os, CNBC and Telemundo, according to Panasonic executives at a New York press conference today. The purchase includes a variety of camcorders, including the AG-HPX-300, which is a new unit aimed at the hard-pressed TV station market.



​
The camera, with one-third inch, 2.2 megapixel, HD 3MOS progressive imagers, lists for $10,000, including a Fujinon lens, and is expected to be widely available starting next month.


"That price range is pretty sweet for stations," said Joe Facchini, Panasonic director of product marketing.
Panasonic execs said that the buy likely will also include other low-cost Panasonic P2 cameras, the AG-HPX-170 and the AG-HVX-200 as well as the high-end AJ-HPX-2000.
Facchini called the AG-HPX-300 "the new benchmark" for $10,000 cameras. "It's a real camera," he said, "it's not a modified consumer camera."
The AG-HPX-300 can shoot in various HD formats, including 1080i/p and 720p as well as SD; can accept a full range of lenses; and can be configured for studio use.
"Anything you want to shoot with this camera, you can shoot with this camera," Facchini added. "This is what the station market has been looking for," he said. "The days of the $30,000 or $40,000 news camera are way behind us."
According to Jan Crittenden, the product manager for the AG-HPX-300, the camera is meant to compete with mid-priced cameras from Sony (XDCam EX3) and JVC (HD250). "In form function alone this feels like a real camera because it rests on your shoulder," Crittenden said, and added that configured for studio use with cable, remote, monitor and power supply, the camera will list for around $23,000.
Panasonic would not reveal the financial terms of the NBC deal.
 
Special offer till the end of March :

Dear Mr. Mutsaers,

We are authorised Panasonic Dealer so any request that comes to Panasonic gets transmitted to us or other Dealers.
We offer the HPX301 including 2 32 GB Cards for 9.950,00€ + VAT. This offer is valid till the end of March. I think that the Camcorder will be available in the Netherlands at the same time as in Germany! You can apply our Newsletter that will keep you updated on feature Events and News concerning the HPX301. Please visit www.avtplus.de for more Information.

Regards

Alexander Sommer
Vertrieb



Cees Mutsaers said:
This is the mail I got from Panasonic Broadcast Europe on the price for the HPX301

Dear Sir,
Thank you very much for your inquiry. The HPX301 will cost 7.850,00€ + VAT.
There are no batteries included and it will be available in the end of march.
Regards
Alexander Sommer​
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LuckyStudio 13 said:
I think, upon the discovery of "rolling shutter" phenomenon, I am sure the TV stations will reduce the use of such camera on the field and instead will only pull the camera out on more controlled environment such as in the studio or sit down interviews.
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Having worked for a TV News station for 8 years I can tell you that wobble, skew, smear, grain, dead pixels, low resolution, dropouts, bad lighting, horrific framing, and operator incompetence mean nothing to the guys upstairs so long as the photographer "got the shot." You would be amazed at what is approved for air. I don't think wobble, skew, or half frame exposure would ever deter these guys.

I joined a company in the past year that does high end commercial work shooting on the RED One on a near daily basis. If the HPX300 handles wobble and skew like the RED does, then I have no worries about it whatsoever! Unless you're entire project consists of shooting at a high shutter speed with "Bourne" style hand-held photography mostly relegated to whip pans coupled with insane amounts of strobe lights, you'll probably be okay.

Just my .02!
 
cannes1979 said:
Having worked for a TV News station for 8 years I can tell you that wobble, skew, smear, grain, dead pixels, low resolution, dropouts, bad lighting, horrific framing, and operator incompetence mean nothing to the guys upstairs so long as the photographer "got the shot." You would be amazed at what is approved for air. I don't think wobble, skew, or half frame exposure would ever deter these guys.

I joined a company in the past year that does high end commercial work shooting on the RED One on a near daily basis. If the HPX300 handles wobble and skew like the RED does, then I have no worries about it whatsoever! Unless you're entire project consists of shooting at a high shutter speed with "Bourne" style hand-held photography mostly relegated to whip pans coupled with insane amounts of strobe lights, you'll probably be okay.

Just my .02!
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Well I disagree. I have been on a major TV production and when they saw a dead-pixel on the HD footage from a whole day helicopter, they sent the guys out again to re-shoot. A whole day in a helicopter shooting nature......once again.....pricey.

Yes, there is this hype about reality shows and quick-fast TV making. But if you make a serious production you very much worry. The director won´t care HOW you get the image, but he will want a certain image. And that´s not only film and drama, but also in documentaries and well done events.
 
Joe Lawry said:
Very nice price... shame its going to cost a bit more outside of the usa due to the exchange rates. I've been quoted 20,000 NZD, which is around 10,500 USD.
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Hi Joe,

I think you may remember that I said that the camera will come in around $20,000 - not quite a quote. Basically I had taken the U.S. list price and doubled it (roughly). We have not set the final price but be prepared to be pleasantly surprised - I always prefer to start high and pull a rabbit out of the hat.
 
Sorry Rick, quoted was the wrong word to use. I should have also noted that that price 'around' 20k was most likely a list price. Not a street price.
 
cannes1979 said:
Having worked for a TV News station for 8 years I can tell you that wobble, skew, smear, grain, dead pixels, low resolution, dropouts, bad lighting, horrific framing, and operator incompetence mean nothing to the guys upstairs so long as the photographer "got the shot."
Click to expand...

If a salesperson is pushing a rolling shutter CMOS cam to me under the same business requirement (on the field/event reporting), him and the company he represents will be off my Rolodex forever. Go and see the clip on CMOS partial exposure effects again and then tell yourself CMOS Rolling Shutter cam is a suitable tool for live/event on the field TV station reporting. Panasonic can say w/e they want, I do know that a lot of business executives have NOT a SINGLE CLUE about cam technology.
 
Most business execs have not a single clue about camera technology. That's why I put up that article a couple of years ago, to try to spell out for people that these new CMOS cameras change things and they don't behave like the last several decades of CCD cameras do.

The info is out there; it's now incumbent on shooters to learn how CMOS changes things for them. For some it won't change anything about what they do. For others it might be a dealbreaker.

I would think any responsible salesperson would feel an obligation to steer the customer towards the product most suitable for their needs. But then it becomes incumbent on the customer to state what their needs are.
 
Barry, I think with this new camera, you are now obligated to write a Barry Green Guide to the Panasonic Hpx 500 and Hpx 300 !!! Yay !!!! :) Although you might have to have a new section on Sensor Technology: CMOS & CCD. :D
 
i think ill wait to see what will happen to the HPX500 after NAB....
Like an HPX505??? (new 2/3 CCDs, New VF, New LCD)..........maybe???!!....:thumbup:
 
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