PP2.0 or Edius Broadcast 4?!

Andrew Clark

Andrew Clark

Active member
Hey all -

Would appreciate some feedback from your experiences and / or thoughts regarding editing HVX200 HD material on either Adobe's PP2.0 w/Cineform (either Aspect or Prospect HD) vs. Grass Valley's Edius Broadcast 4.0. I'd be shooting primarily in the 1080 modes (24p, 24pa, 60i).

I've noticed that Prospect HD is the only one that allows you to edit at 1920x1080; while the others (Aspect HD and EB4) edit at a maximum of 1440x1080. Is this good, bad or does it even matter?

I would try the trial versions myself, but my computer is a meager PIII 600 w/256mb of RAM!! It barely plays Flash videos!! I will be getting a new Core 2 Duo laptop soon to try this stuff.

So for now, it'd be greatly appreciated to obtain some feedback, opinions of what you HVX200 users and editors feel about either of these NLE's so I can prep myself for the plunge in the coming weeks.

Many thanks!!

AC
 
It depends on how important native support with real-time editing is to you. That is pretty much the most important thing to me, so... it was a tough decision, but ultimately Edius Broadcast 4 was the only way to go in regards to that. Mine will be here Friday, I will let you know. Also I believe Brandon in the Canopus section mentioned that the trial version of Edius now has the broadcast features so you can screw around with the p2 workflow. From what I gathered from the trial version (the one without the p2 options) Edius is verrry powerful. Not as robust as some others in terms of bells & whistles, etc., but very powerful. I liked it... once I screwed around with it some. My cameras and computer are coming in today, and Edius will be here tomorrow, so I will let you know, but I would encourage you to try the trial version out.

Jason
 
Thanks BenB and Ramjet.

Ramjet please do let me know what you think of EB4 after you get it and tinker around with it for awhile.

Another question; does EB4 edit in native DVCPRO-HD or does it convert it into another format?

From the research I've been doing on this and other forums, some state that editing in the native DVCPRO-HD format is not too good in terms of speed and quality. Just wondering if there is any truth to that?

That's why I was wondering if the PP2.0 / Cineform route would be a "better" or "just as good option" as it uses a "wavelet", I believe, codec.


AC
 
Edius 4 Broadcast supports DVCPro/DVCPro50/DVCProHD natively and doesn't use an intermediate format.

I've edited one project containing three tracks of DVCProHD video and three tracks of DV25 video from another camera, plus a separate audio WAV track, in realtime on a P4D 840EE 3.2GHz with all the assets on a two-drive 7200RPM RAID1 SATA II array.
 
THoff -

Have you ran into any problems with the .WAV tracks? I've read a excerpt from Edius Tips.com and it states that EB4 crashes because of metadata confuses it. And also if the sample rate is anything other than 48000Hz, it will crash.

Have you (or anybody else here) experienced this?

AC
 
No, I haven't run into that, but I've only been using Edius for a few months (since I got my HVX200). I was using V4.02 at the time I edited that project, and I'm not using V4.03 -- it's possible that the problem was fixed or just doesn't apply to what I did.
 
I will definitely let you know what I think, but it probably won't be such great info. coming from me. :) I haven't really heard of anyone getting full real-time playback and editing using a different NLE that requires raylight, etc.

Barry, was talking a while back, about when he was trying out broadcast 3.something. He was using his old laptop. He had used the raylight, etc. with less than stellar results. He put his p2 card in his lappy, and had immediate real-time playback with Edius and 720p footage. I think he said he was getting single digit frame rates with the other intermediate codec programs.
Of course, with a fast enough system, that may not be the case, but you still have to look at time converting and extra space having the original mxf and an avi of the same clips.

Jason
 
That is true. 2.00ghz Pentium M 760, using Raylight, I'd get around 4fps at best quality. EDIUS 3.6 Broadcast, playing back from the card, was realtime even at 1080. Smaller display window, of course, but realtime playback.
 
I was gonna chuck my PC out of my second story window until I put Cineform on there. I now love PPRO again. If you're not a PPRO user i'd go with Edius, Native has gotta be nice.
 
Hey Andrew. So I have barely begun using EDIUS, but so far... The p2 workflow is amazing. And this is a super powerful NLE. I have edited 3-4 tracks of 720pn straight off of the p2 card and it never even blinked. And I am previewing on a second display with my preview window blown up to fill all 22" inches of it. It's just beautiful in terms of p2. That's about all I can report at this point. Haven't done much but basic dissolve transitions and such. But, I haven't had a single problem yet.
I was hesitant about getting a laptop originally, but I went ahead and did. It is a huge laptop with a 20.5" display. But anyways, it is a core duo 2.16ghz with 2gig ram and 240 gig of internal 5400 rpm drives. I am editing my footage either directly off of the p2 cards or I dump the footage to my eSATA (raid 0) drvies I am running via eSATA cable into an expresscard into the lappy. Either way I do it, it is screaming so far.
If I edit off of the cards directly, I just select all of the clips and do a direct import. For almost 6 gigs worth of footage it was almost instantaneous. I also have dumped the footage onto my eSATA drives through "My Computer" with a simple copy and paste... it took about 3 minutes to transfer for that same 6 gigs worth of of 720p/24pn and some overcranked at 60fps. Then I do the same direct import and edit off of the eSATA drives and I get the same screaming real-time, full-frame results.
I'm so excited so far.

Jason
 
Hey Jason -

Thanks much for the update!! It sounds like EB4 is "the King NLE" for a P2 workflow.

If you get the chance to shoot any 1080 (24p, 24pa, 60i) footage, please let me know about how EB4 and your NLE system can handle that as well.

Just curious if you don't mind me asking, what kind / brand of laptop did you get that has a 20.5" screen size?
 
acer 9805. I tried a teensy bit of 1080 24pa tonight. It seemed to work fine as well. I put it on 3 different tracks and added a basic dissolve. Still real-time.

Jason
 
I use Premiere Pro 2 with Cineform codec. I tried out Edius back when the HVX first came out, and I was very pleased with it. The only reason I am still using PP, is because I already know how to use the software, and I use all of the Adobe suite (After Effects, etc) so the integration between all of the Adobe products is really nice. If you don't plan on using After Effects or the other programs in the Adobe Production bundle, and you don't have any previous knowledge of Premiere, then the choice is simple...Edius.
 
Ramjet1979 said:
acer 9805. I tried a teensy bit of 1080 24pa tonight. It seemed to work fine as well. I put it on 3 different tracks and added a basic dissolve. Still real-time.

Jason
Click to expand...
Thanks Jason!!

When you output your projects, are you making WMV-HD's, DVD's, or ??? Does the Procoder Express that comes with EB4 suffice for this? Or do you find that you need the "full" version of PE or something else like Sorenson, Cleaner, etc...?
 
MrPolarBare said:
I use Premiere Pro 2 with Cineform codec. I tried out Edius back when the HVX first came out, and I was very pleased with it. The only reason I am still using PP, is because I already know how to use the software, and I use all of the Adobe suite (After Effects, etc) so the integration between all of the Adobe products is really nice. If you don't plan on using After Effects or the other programs in the Adobe Production bundle, and you don't have any previous knowledge of Premiere, then the choice is simple...Edius.
Click to expand...
Thanks MrPolarBare!!

Are you using Aspect HD or Prospect HD?

Also, when using Cineform files, are they easily used in the other applications in the Adobe Production Suite of tools?

And finally, when you complete your projects, are you outputting them to WMV-HD's, DVD's or ??? Does PP2.0 provide a decent encoder or do you have to get something like Sorenson, Cleaner, etc...?
 
I haven't done much yet. Just testing stuff out, but there are a lot of options for output through procoder express. I have done some uncompressed rgb avi, h.264, mpeg, etc. There are a lot. I believe there is a hi def wmv as well. I will have to check. There are some sorenson options as well, I think. There are several output options, and you can "fine-tune" them through the procoder express wizard, in the advanced options tab. Size, compression, aspect ratio, pixel aspect, etc. You can also do a direct burn to dvd. I don't know about compatibility with that one though. I burned a 2 minute deal of some slo-mo of my friend shooting a 357 and 20 guage. It played fine in my laptop. One dvd player, it was a black screen, one squeezed it to 4:3. He took it to his house and it worked on one of 3, so I don't know how good the direct burn option is, but the other stuff I have tried seems to work fine if you use the wizard.
Jason
Most of that is pretty new to me though, I have only ever done dvd's before, so to me there are way more options with edius then I remember there being in Vegas, at least the versions of it I used before
Jason
 
Andrew Clark said:
Thanks MrPolarBare!!

Are you using Aspect HD or Prospect HD?

Also, when using Cineform files, are they easily used in the other applications in the Adobe Production Suite of tools?

And finally, when you complete your projects, are you outputting them to WMV-HD's, DVD's or ??? Does PP2.0 provide a decent encoder or do you have to get something like Sorenson, Cleaner, etc...?
Click to expand...
I use Aspect HD. I mainly output to DVD, since that is still the standard that most people view. The Adobe programs have a full suite of codecs for all resolutions though, so I don't anticipate having any issues when rendering out in HD. Also, I have had absolutely no issues with the Aspect HD codec in any program I've used thus far (which has mainly been Premiere and AfterEffects).
 
Ramjet1979 said:
...You can also do a direct burn to dvd. I don't know about compatibility with that one though. I burned a 2 minute deal of some slo-mo of my friend shooting a 357 and 20 guage. It played fine in my laptop. One dvd player, it was a black screen, one squeezed it to 4:3. He took it to his house and it worked on one of 3, so I don't know how good the direct burn option is, but the other stuff I have tried seems to work fine if you use the wizard.
Jason
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've heard of the "hit & miss" scenario with burning DVD's. I believe it's a combination of issues; DVD-R or +R, manufacturers of the burners and discs and firmware of the players themselves.

Thanks again for your input / experiences Jason!!
 
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