Potential Clip Problems, Please check...

B

Bassman2003

Veteran
Hello,

I filmed a wedding over the weekend and I am working with the footage and an issue has shown up.

(I will have my personal review of the camera forthcoming when I get some time).

On long clips, I am noticing a few frames dropped around the 26 or 27 minute mark or the 3.99Gb mark.

So it looks like the seemless transition between clips is not working!

I am using Panasonic Class "6" 32 gig cards

If I could ask, could owners please check if this happens with their setup?

Thanks.

I have another wedding to shoot this weekend and this is not comforting...
 
Hey Bassman I too would like a response from someone as this can't be a good thing - especially if it happens during vows or toasts... :(
I'm due to receive my camera at the end of the month.
 
how are you handling the clips? are they getting transcoded to another format or are you working with an NLE that supports native avchd?
 
Also, what quality setting were you using when you encountered this problem? Is your issue reproducible at other settings as well?
 
So this camera is capable of producing drop frames afterall, hmmmm.
I wonder if this has anything to do with it.
Fat32 has 4 Gb filesize limit.
NTSF has none.
The SHDC cards are all FAT32 formatted .
I can imagine some sort of delay happening in the camera when creating a new clip while recording

I dont do weddings but I would really hate for this to happen if ever I have to shoot for that long. Come to think of it interviews can get messy. :(
Still waiting on my camera.
 
Not that you should have to find a workaround but couldn't you just stop recording and record again a second after during a down time when u don't need to continuously record?
 
when shooting a wedding, or any event with multiple cameras, it makes it a million times easier to sync them up when they don't have breaks in recording.
 
I haven't had any problem with spanned clips so far, thay all played back perfectly.
clips were converted to dvcpro hd with the pany converter.
 
Bassman2003 said:
So it looks like the seemless transition between clips is not working!
Click to expand...
- Are you editing native AVCHD clips?
- What editing application do you use?
- Have you tried to convert the clips to DVCpro HD with Panasonics transcoder?

I have "only" seen this issue with native AVCHD clips in Premiere Pro CS4. The problem went away when i transcoded the clips with Panasonics AVCHD to DVCPro HD converter.

/Roger
 
I am using Canopus HQ, but the problem is with the source file.

When I look at the AVCHD file, the last 30 frames are the same.

It looks to me like the GOP structure was caught in an uncomfortable place when the 3.99Gb limit was reached.

So this is not a transcoding error, this is a recording error with the camera.

I was asking if anybody else could test this.

I was filming at the highest quality setting with 720p60 without pre-record on.

Thanks, and hopefully this is just a setting.
 
manglerBMX said:
when shooting a wedding, or any event with multiple cameras, it makes it a million times easier to sync them up when they don't have breaks in recording.
Click to expand...

You would stroke out editing weddings I shoot when each camera typically has about 150 clips each and the primary audio tracks are on digital audio recorders.

That is a potential real problem with the 4GB thing if it turns out to be true. It would certainly need a firmware fix.

My longest clips so far have been 17 to 20 minutes in length and I have seen no problems yet.
 
jeff9329 said:
You would stroke out editing weddings I shoot when each camera typically has about 150 clips each and the primary audio tracks are on digital audio recorders.
Click to expand...

Even worse when your digital recorders are Zoom H4/H2 series that encode with a slight time lag and you have to resync the audio by about 2 frames every couple of minutes to match the vision - would be nice if they told you this stuff beforehand :(
 
I called Broadcast tech support and explained the severity of this issue and strongly asked for a call back as they have not called in the past, but nobody returned my call.

When I called back after some hours they said they were closed (4:30 central time)

I guess this camera does not rate or the message of a serious possible issue did not reach the target.

Oh well, I will try again.
 
Tested last night with and without "Pre-Record" and the results were the same.

The last 30 or so frames repeat at the end of the 4gig clip, then motion returns with the start of the next clip.

Looks like an issue unless somebody else knows of a setting I can change for this?

Anybody else test for this?

Last night I just pointed the camera at the CNBC channel on T.V. for 35min as the stock ticker never stops.
 
Well I guess I'll be the first to say this problem renders this cam completely useless for any serious work. I must also say that it does not surprise me one bit since those of us who have been fooling around with AVCHD consumer cam's for the past 10 months have encountered the 2GB (FAT) hard file limit with every AVCHD cam created to date. Some manufacturers (Sony) have written software that will seamlessly resplice these files back to the original contiguous clip, while others (Canon) continue to ignore the issue altogether and hope that a third party ISV (Pixela) will eventually fix it for them (not happening).

The fact that this issue continues to resurface even with today's advanced filesystems proves that AVCHD clearly cannot be taken seriously. I firmly believe that the consortium is either directly or indirectly responsible for this extreme shortsightedness and the irresponsibility of the committee driving this format is entirely to blame for the complete hit-or-miss extended contiguous recording capabilities that we are currently witnessing in these consumer electronics manufacturers' products.

My advice to you Bassman2003 is to return the camera as defective and demand a full refund. Furthermore, anyone who has pending orders should think about cancelling those orders until Panasonic steps up to the plate and proves it has delivered a permanent fix.

I spent four months earlier this year going round and round with Canon support (idiots) and had to PROVE to them there was a replicable problem with every HG-10 AVCHD consumer cam. In the end, they denied accountability for this issue and instead defaulted to blaming the accommodating software package as being unable to correctly re-splice the <2GB clips back to the original contiguous file as displayed on the cam's LCD.

Actually, this is sounding like a far more serious problem because the Panny is apparently corrupting the video stream - something that not even the cheap HG10 ever did. At least the little consumer cam left the video and audio well enough alone. And we could use the copy /b DOS command and manually re-splice the files back together into the original contiguous clip with ZERO dropped audio samples or vid frames.

[rant]
I am so sick and tired of these stupid electronics manufacturers pawning off defective crap products and then trying to absolve themselves of any responsibility for these defects. It's not until the market starts DEMANDING a quality product and voting with its collective $$$ that we will see the status quo change. Similarly, AVCHD has proven to be a complete joke to date. What kind of an idiot imposes filesystem limitations that are part of legacy systems not even in use with today's video editing PC or Mac? Are you kidding me? Do you seriously believe some moron is going to use Win'98 to edit AVCHD footage? GET REAL.

One of the strongest features of AVCHD is the possibility of extended record times during acquisition vis-a-vis traditional tape-based HDV. So far, that capability has yet to materialize without resorting to using special software designed to overcome brickwall limits in the filesystems used by the AVCHD products. Truly pathetic.

HEY CE MANUFACTURERS - GET A F'ING CLUE ALREADY.
[/rant]
 
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