FS7: PMW FS5 Announced.

I've found this statement in another forum about 4K XAVC-L codec by Oliver Daniel: "The severe issues are banding, macro-blocking and some kind of blotchy color stuff going on. Take note this is in Slog3/CineEl - I'm not sure if there are issues in other PP's. In the latest instance, it was a female face. It was a very well lit face using daylight LED's. Her face was a cocktail macroblocking mess... like bits of magenta smeared with yellow. Tried many, many grades and all had the same issue. Various shots. Other times it's been detail in the highlights - lots of banding and macroblocking. Especially clouds, trees, anything hazy looking (like smoke). Also there's alot of fringing/smearing/fuzziness around some bright highlights, like someone has drawn round them with a crayon. The exact same compositions in XAVC-I have NONE of these issues. Just flat-out fantastic and very clean. I've shot XAVC-L in 1080p on FS7 too. I've not really seen any issues that I recall. I'm not sure if that is camera-related or the conditions in which I filmed. Personally I think the FS5 looks great, but should do some tests before to see if these image issues can be avoided (or see if they are there at all)." Anyone has tested 4K XAVC-L 8 bit on FS7 and noticed same problems?
 
Danilo Del Tufo said:
I've found this statement in another forum about 4K XAVC-L codec by Oliver Daniel: "The severe issues are banding, macro-blocking and some kind of blotchy color stuff going on. Take note this is in Slog3/CineEl - I'm not sure if there are issues in other PP's. In the latest instance, it was a female face. It was a very well lit face using daylight LED's. Her face was a cocktail macroblocking mess... like bits of magenta smeared with yellow. Tried many, many grades and all had the same issue. Various shots. Other times it's been detail in the highlights - lots of banding and macroblocking. Especially clouds, trees, anything hazy looking (like smoke). Also there's alot of fringing/smearing/fuzziness around some bright highlights, like someone has drawn round them with a crayon. The exact same compositions in XAVC-I have NONE of these issues. Just flat-out fantastic and very clean. I've shot XAVC-L in 1080p on FS7 too. I've not really seen any issues that I recall. I'm not sure if that is camera-related or the conditions in which I filmed. Personally I think the FS5 looks great, but should do some tests before to see if these image issues can be avoided (or see if they are there at all)." Anyone has tested 4K XAVC-L 8 bit on FS7 and noticed same problems?
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My general impression of XAVC in general is that it works very differently to AVCHD. With AVCHD objects in motion will macro block e.g. a tree leaves in the wind, XAVC will keep these leaves sharp but will heavily macro block the solid blue sky in the background. You won't notice the macro blocked sky until you want to put some contrast into it then it'll be as brittle as anything. Shoot for the codec, put contrast into the sky when shooting with grads or polarisers. Expose and light the talent well, just follow best practices and be aware of the codec's shortcomings, it's a long way from RAW.

I found baking LUTs in CineEI a good option especially in low dynamic range scenes. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot talking heads this way as there will be more contrast and more samples where you need it and less chance of macro blocking.

I've noticed that XAVC when fed an Slog image can break apart in low contrast areas, it could be Oliver Daniel lit the female's face very flat which consequently fell into the macro blocking danger zone when trying to add back contrast. The "blotchy color stuff going on" sounds like the image was under exposed. 10 bits don't count for anything when you're fighting noise and macro blocking, you're done for.

In XAVC-L you're more likely to find yourself in the danger zone than with XAVC-I. The compression artefacts of XAVC are the biggest limitation to grading not whether it's 8 bits or 10 bit footage.
 
I read that XAVC L takes a lot more grunt from the computer.. compared to XAVC I.. could an older computer be screwing things up with L mode XAVC.. ?
 
Yes, an old computer can screw things up. Also important is how you decode the footage. Same shot can be unusable in one NLE and fine in another.

Transcoding to ProRes is the answer - I can see Convergent Design making a few $$$ out of FS5 users...
 
I have to say that I haven't seen any problems with my XAVC-L footage. I only used the long GOP Version once, but it gave me a decent image nevertheless.

Will have a closer look to the footage though!
 
I'm so glad I went to the open day at CVP today (an 8 hour round trip but it was worth it). It's such a beautiful camera! So light and easy to hold. Im used to bracing an ex1 against my shoulder. Well you can't really do that with the fs5 because it's so small, (well you can but your face will be right up into the LCD and my eyesight certainly isn't that good!) But it's so light and the rotatable handgrip makes just holding it in front of you so easy, bracing it wouldn't be necessary. We had a quick look at a number of features like the slow motion and performance in low light, all very impressive.

The only two things to note as a negative, the LCD and VF can't be run at the same time. It's either LCD on and the VF doesn't work, or auto, where the proximity sensor next to the VF cuts off the LCD and boots in the VF when it's up to your eye. The downside of course with this is if the orientation of the VF is horizontal, holding the camera in to your body will trigger the proximity and then turn off the LCD. The sony chap suggested this is by design as its troublesome to process the two viewers at the same time.

The only other issue I saw, the pre-production early firmware version we saw would output the 4k feed via hdmi to an external monitor, but the feed would cut to black when internally recording on the unit. So no 4k monitoring when recording. It was unclear if this was going to be standard camera behaviour or if it'll be fixed in updated firmware.

All in all though, I'm sold, I can't wait to get it.
 
I am tempted to upgrade from RX10II to FS5 for the much longer burst slow mo and more usability, there are couple points that bugged me on the slow-mo on rx10 ii

1.Once on standby you can't change anything like shutterspeed/iso/zoom or even focusing, so you can't really film an object running toward you, have to be sideways.
2.It could shift focus once you put on slow-mo standby, even if you set to MF and prefocus, this is really annoying! (consider you can't change parameter once on standby)
3. the time to write to the card, since it have to upsize to FHD format that make it even worse.

For now I am actually fine with 2s slow mo as it equals to 20s playback, and I still have to cut it down for final output, just I don't have much "footage" for the speed ramping since it's only 2s.
Too bad it doesn't do 120p in continous mode and with sound like RX10II or A7SII do, that is really helpful for long/unexpected takes like boxing match as I can do slow mo on the go in post if I see something interesting.
 
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Two questions:

Is there any sort of protective cap for the LCD when transporting the camera? And also, how long does it take to write a 240fps burst to the cards?
 
No cap on the LCD - guy presenting it in Toronto today said maybe 3rd party will make something. He said he just tucks it close to the body.

He he didn't say how long takes to write the buffer. (I asked, heh)
he said it's very similar to the fs700
some else asked if there is a running cache (similar to fs700 he said), where the camera runs and caches everything continuously for an 8 second period. You can then choose if you want to record the previous 8 seconds which just occurred, or the next 8 seconds.


proper 4k raw (not uhd) coming via paid upgrade out of the SDI

clear image zoom 2x in hd and 1.5 in 4k
2x centre crop in hd (and can also clear image zoom in top of this, and still 10 bit 422)
2x centre crop CAN be mapped or an assignable button
clear image zoom can activate in seamlessly onto the end of a zoom lens (sony lenses he said) using the zoom rocker
you can use the handles zoom rocker for clear image zoom
no lut support (but there is a view assist similar to what's in the c100, can't adjust or record it)
histogram only, no waveform (he said maybe in firmware down the line)
peaking and zebras included

can an use old slower class 10 sd cards for avchd recording
ND filter makes noise when activated, but then is completely silent. Makes noise when switched to clear again
suggested users may still look at IR filters when using the nd

hmm can't remember anything else that wasn't already well known already....


side note, someone asked about the a7s2 overheating like the a7r2. He said nothing has changed in the body so the a7s2 will have the same 4k functioning quirks as the a7r2
 
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I like the small body style. I was saying that the problem of sending a video signal to both a viewfinder and a flip-out screen wasn't a problem from 1999 (like with the Sony TRV900) until, suddenly, now.
 
Clermond said:
Does it have internal lens correction also at 4K for this sofa cushion of a lens? I am not sure wether the 18-105 is a good move.
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From reviews I have read, it does have internal lens correction for the 18-105 in 4K unlike the FS7.
 
Nirv said:
...the FS7 additional features are looking like a real bargain by comparison.

The FS5 is not a baby FS7 it's its own thing and Sony have placed it in the right position in the lineup.
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Smaller, lighter... around 4 lbs all in ... 2lbs with no handle or grip. works on gimbles, drones and car mounts easier than the Fs7. Cheaper media.... Faster menus ... simpler to operate from what I hear. Nice little camera, but not cheap, as in solid and priced high for what you get... of course miniaturization has its costs.
 
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