Pmw F5 & F55

S. Matthews said:
I can't find it but I'm being lazy, but after a bit they state it's only the brains.
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You're definitely not being lazy... who wants to read through a thousands posts of glorifying cult follower comments? We'll know soon enough. This may be just what we need to get those new F5 and F55 prices down!

Thanks Jim!
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
Yeah, I would not trust hanging a big cine-lens from an E-mount. I have a PL adapter for E-mount for my NEX-5 photography camera and I HAVE to mount the camera/support the camera from the lens mount!
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There is no technical reason why E-mount can't be made just as robust as FZ mount. Both mounts have the same 18mm flange distance.

F series cameras should have used the E-mount.
 
My comment has nothing to do with the flange distance. My opinion was formed on the basis of mount strength. From my 2 years of experience with putting a PL adapter on an E-mount camera, I can tell you I would not trust it to hold big cinema lenses or even hefty primes during rigorous on-set use. I've put many lenses on that thing (NEX-5) as well as an FS100, including the Angie 24-290, Alura 18-80, Cooke 18-100, Cooke S4's, Hawk Anamorphics, Lomo Anamorphics, etc, etc. and I can tell you that I would be nervous to put 80% of all cinema lenses on that camera without either supporting the rig from the PL mount or having lens support. Now I'd never put the Angie 24-290 on an PL'd F3 without support (or any camera for that matter) but I'd feel fine with almost all primes and lightweight zooms.

It's just my opinion, but I think the FZ-PL connection is more solid than any E-mount-PL connection I've tested.

Maybe I'm just not trusting of the mount, but it's never really given me the solid 'I've got it feeling' when putting a PL adapter on and then a hefty lens. But the F3's FZ-PL mount connection goes unnoticed. When I put a lens on a PL'd F3, it feels so solid that I forget the FZ part of the camera even exists. If they can do that with E-mount, than god-speed... I just don't see it being that tough.

Again, just my opinion. I've never stress tested the E-mount to breaking point.
 
Ryan you are completely right, the e-mount is all wrong

Its just not designed to counter the torque force of a follow focus, which is fair play as its is a stills mount..

S
 
Mitch Gross said:
The Phantom Flex has a CMOS sensor with a Global Shutter. It's been commercialy avilable for several years. In fact, with the exception of the Phantom HD Gold and Phantom 65 Gold, all Vision Research Phantom cameras have had Global Shutters.
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Totally forgot about the Phantoms. You're right, it does have a global shutter, though the cameras are a good example that demonstrates the sacrifices of global shutter as well. The Phantom Flex for instance, is a very low pixel density sensor, it has 10 um pixels. Basically, meaning that the 10 um pixel acts more like a 6 um pixel after accounting for required pixel-level memory and the additional real estate necessary to add the global shutter. Same goes for the 65 Gold, you should have what should is a ~5 um that is going to act like closer to a 3 um photosite, which explains its limitations in dynamic range.

As you mention before, for the Sony we see an equivalent drop from the F5 to the F55 (ISO2000 to ISO1250), but the comparable Phantom 65 Gold is a closer to ISO 640. The quantum efficiency that Sony is achieving with this sensor is pretty astounding. Either the sensor itself is that much further ahead of the competition that its able to achieve native ISO1250 even with the global shutter or they've figured out a way to minimize footprint of pixel-level memory.

Another point is the price. Phantoms are specialized equipment with a price to justify it. I would be very surprised if the F55 is priced at $25k. You probably know more than I do, but I don't see that price-point being very feasible.


Samuel H said:
I'll be playing wich a CMOSIS CMV12000 in December. Still don't know how much info they'll allow me to share, but I sure hope image quality is good enough for motion picture cameras, not just uber-beefed-up barcode scanners!
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As a small company, I genueinly like CMOSIS, but I have my reservations about the CMV12000. It essentially uses the same 8T(transistor) 5.5 um pixel from their industrial sensors (speeding cameras, license plate readers, that sort of stuff). 8T is fairly complex, and the images haven't been anything to write home about. CMOSIS also uses a 10-bit ADC, which while fast, is clearly showing its industrial roots. But its natural that global shutters are mated with high-speed cameras, because that is where you really do need them.

That said, I would expect the CMOSIS to be a fairly good modern sensor. Though, as with the limitations of technology, I wouldn't expect the sensor to match its rivals in pure image quality, low-light, and dynamic range.
 
evilthought said:
There is no technical reason why E-mount can't be made just as robust as FZ mount. Both mounts have the same 18mm flange distance.

F series cameras should have used the E-mount.
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Sure there is. Has to do with the diameter of the mount vs. leverage. Smaller diameter and a longer "lever" (big heavy lens), coupled with thin, short bayonet interlock makes for issues.

That's the whole reason PL exists...there was a need as zooms were getting bigger and heavier for a mount that would resist tweaking better. Arri standard mount is a good example...past a certain point even that deep bayonet mount wasn't up to the task.
 
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dustylense said:
All I can say is right now is NOT the time to purchase a camera at all. The Sony/RED battle of prices will hopefully shift the whole market for s35 cinema cam prices. If I had the money just laying around and cost was not a factor and both systems were available, I would pick the Sony just due to the support you will get from them. They have more resource and at these prices I need the piece of mind that if something does go wrong with my camera, there is support behind it. I like both systems, don't get me wrong.
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does Red fall short on service and support? i think some would say that Sony is big enough to be indifferent in their response to product bugs and short-comings, when it suits them. they can disregard a lot of people without noticeable effects on their bottom line.
 
MPB said:
does Red fall short on service and support? i think some would say that Sony is big enough to be indifferent in their response to product bugs and short-comings, when it suits them. they can disregard a lot of people without noticeable effects on their bottom line.
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Well as a Pro Canon member, I know that if my camera goes down ANY WHERE in the world, that they will ship me a camera ANY WHERE in the world so that I can complete me assignment within 24 hours. I'm sure Sony has similar offerings.
 
Hey guys. Theres a thread regarding red pricing in the news section. Can we keep much of that new pricing discussion there please? This thread is primarily to discuss the new F cameras.
 
Noel Evans said:
Hey guys. Theres a thread regarding red pricing in the news section. Can we keep much of that new pricing discussion there please? This thread is primarily to discuss the new F cameras.
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The Red news will directly effect Sony's pricing on the F5 & F55. Isn't that aspect relevent to this thread?
 
OF course it's relevant. People can gloss over it if the don't care. Red's move to play their hand first was brilliant--they'll be snatching away potential F55 buyers while Sony postures and deliberates. Good move Red!

Before I get scorched: I own both Sony and Red, so no particular loyalty here.
 
LeavingTheCandy said:
OF course it's relevant. People can gloss over it if the don't care. Red's move to play their hand first was brilliant--they'll be snatching away potential F55 buyers while Sony postures and deliberates. Good move Red!
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I am not so sure, if one can wait for sony's pricing then sony will have the upper hand in the end.
 
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