You realise the Epic also has an external, bolt on RAW recorder too, called an SSD side module?
Facts, yawn.
Pmw F5 & F55
- Thread starter Nate Weaver
- Start date
You realise the Epic also has an external, bolt on RAW recorder too, called an SSD side module?
Facts, yawn.
Scanners286
Member
I think it's fair to day that if you consider a V-lock battery to be an external power system then you could argue the recorder's offboard. You can take it off, that much is true, but it just feels like part of the camera.
S. Matthews
Well-known member
it comes attached to the camera and is included in brain purchase, come one man you know what he means. Big difference to something that has to purchased separately.
correction, you can buy a brain without it but there is no recording option, it is the only one, it's just the whole modular concept taken to a new level. Remember when the red one went from CF to SSD that was because they could remove the recording module(I think) this allows the potential for the same thing or the reverse if you get a new brain you don't need to repurchase the SSD.
Different strokes for different folks people, you pick the approach and style that suits you, no need to insult the paths that don't fit you. We all have plenty of options now there really should be no issue.
play nice!
correction, you can buy a brain without it but there is no recording option, it is the only one, it's just the whole modular concept taken to a new level. Remember when the red one went from CF to SSD that was because they could remove the recording module(I think) this allows the potential for the same thing or the reverse if you get a new brain you don't need to repurchase the SSD.
Different strokes for different folks people, you pick the approach and style that suits you, no need to insult the paths that don't fit you. We all have plenty of options now there really should be no issue.
play nice!
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Barry_Green
Moderator
Correct. The Epic needs a $1,500 offboard module attached to it before it can record anything at all.
It also needs a $700 to $2,200 lens mount attached to it before you can even put a lens on.
Seriously, you can't compare pricing until you compare what an actual apples-to-apples system costs.
Barry_Green
Moderator
No, it is purchased separately. Or you can buy a bundle that has it.
Epic-X brain (today): $34,500.
Epic-X package with lens mount and side SSD module: $38,000.
Viddovation
Veteran
That's true, but...
In most cases when people use the term "external recorder" they're refering to something that doesn't mate intuitively to the camera body. Using an external recorder like the Samurai, Ki Pro, Ki Pro Mini, CineDeck, Gemini or many others not only means devising an often bulky attachment to the camera rig, but means spurious cables, non-matching file naming systems, and a dozen other headaches that simply won't happen with this modular Sony F5/F55 ecosystem.
I think Sony would be much smarter to market the AXS-R5 as a "Detachable Recorder" instead of as an "external recorder."
S. Matthews
Well-known member
corrected that but it's kind of crazy here people, I see it as semantics, no matter how you look at it Red's primary (see what I did there) recording options is raw and 4k/5k.
you can try and spin it how you like (I know it's election season) but that still does not make it not true. now do I agree with the comments that the F5 and F55 are pointless because they don't offer primary raw recording, no. I think they are wonderful camera's, I just can't take the breaking down one system to build another, especially when it is based on misguided and specific viewpoints.
Meh!
correction for last post incase you missed it:
correction, you can buy a brain without it but there is no recording option, it is the only one, it's just the whole modular concept taken to a new level. Remember when the red one went from CF to SSD that was because they could remove the recording module(I think) this allows the potential for the same thing or the reverse if you get a new brain you don't need to repurchase the SSD.
Different strokes for different folks people, you pick the approach and style that suits you, no need to insult the paths that don't fit you. We all have plenty of options now there really should be no issue.
you can try and spin it how you like (I know it's election season) but that still does not make it not true. now do I agree with the comments that the F5 and F55 are pointless because they don't offer primary raw recording, no. I think they are wonderful camera's, I just can't take the breaking down one system to build another, especially when it is based on misguided and specific viewpoints.
Meh!
correction for last post incase you missed it:
correction, you can buy a brain without it but there is no recording option, it is the only one, it's just the whole modular concept taken to a new level. Remember when the red one went from CF to SSD that was because they could remove the recording module(I think) this allows the potential for the same thing or the reverse if you get a new brain you don't need to repurchase the SSD.
Different strokes for different folks people, you pick the approach and style that suits you, no need to insult the paths that don't fit you. We all have plenty of options now there really should be no issue.
Barry_Green
Moderator
I guess it depends on how you define buying a Red then. The brain is sold without a recording module, and you have to dock a recorder to it. The F55 is sold with onboard built-in recording, and you can dock an additional recorder to it. And the F55 does have onboard 4K recording to SxS, so the original point was just plain wrong anyway.
If the F55 records 4k onboard, does highspeed, and costs $40,000 or less ... how can that not be considered an Epic competitor?
If the F55 records 4k onboard, does highspeed, and costs $40,000 or less ... how can that not be considered an Epic competitor?
Firmware updates are free per Sony and per all of the articles that I and others have already written
Ned
S. Matthews
Well-known member
oh the red is sold with nothing as a bare brain but that is only for those who own an epic and all the accessories, essentially they are part of the camera as you can't use one without a mount, or a recording option, though you could go external recording only. Still all this oh it cost 20k to get into red, or you have to have this or that to get a BMC to work properly drives me nuts each system has it's bare minimum entry level and it's mid and higher level's, all systems have a different cost of ownership that sometimes can be broken down and bought over time while some you have to buy them all in one package. Really depends on your needs and what matters more to you, global shutter, high frame rates, low light, raw, UHD HD... whatever. Some of us want it all in one system which is rather hard to do, but these Sony's look like the closest I have seen to a mix between cinema style cameras and broadcast cameras.
oh yes that whole side of it.... every camera is a competitor for another in one way or another. but yes saying the F55 is not in competition with epic is a little out there in fact it is the closest thing to an epic to be released, size, modularity, 4k, raw.
I just find as soon as we start talking in these terms, it is when the conversations devolve into poop flinging.
oh and barry I believe his original point was not internal 4k but internal Raw... to avoid this starting up agian replace internal in that last sentance with primary.
oh yes that whole side of it.... every camera is a competitor for another in one way or another. but yes saying the F55 is not in competition with epic is a little out there in fact it is the closest thing to an epic to be released, size, modularity, 4k, raw.
I just find as soon as we start talking in these terms, it is when the conversations devolve into poop flinging.
oh and barry I believe his original point was not internal 4k but internal Raw... to avoid this starting up agian replace internal in that last sentance with primary.
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starcentral
Veteran
I guess if I had the money to think of buying a fully decked out EPIC I would think pretty hard at spending the same amount of beans on a camera that KILLS EPIC in low light (ISO 2000 on F55 are you friggin serious???) and can record internally to 4k with decent codec making for nice proxy files while recording RAW to 4k recorder. Those are sweet features for anyone who's in the 4k RAW game... let's not even mention XLR, TC, global shutter, SLOG2, etc... etc...
I have a feeling the F55 with recorder will come in at around $40-$45k, maybe $50k and while that's WAY out of my price range at the moment a paid off F3 and BT Scarlet combo will fit my bill for now.
On the other hand if the F55 with recorder can be had for a mere $30k I will be immediately reconsidering my position!
As for the F5.. honestly not sure how I feel about it. It's an improvement on the HD front but not sure it's worth a new investment and then $9k-$20k for a decent external 4k recorder. Still a ~$25k complete package solution.
YES - where the hell has Panasonic been in all this? They use to be pioneers but lately...
I have a feeling the F55 with recorder will come in at around $40-$45k, maybe $50k and while that's WAY out of my price range at the moment a paid off F3 and BT Scarlet combo will fit my bill for now.
On the other hand if the F55 with recorder can be had for a mere $30k I will be immediately reconsidering my position!
As for the F5.. honestly not sure how I feel about it. It's an improvement on the HD front but not sure it's worth a new investment and then $9k-$20k for a decent external 4k recorder. Still a ~$25k complete package solution.
+1
And now Barry tell us ALL about NEW PANASONIC MODULAR CINEMA CAMERA PLeeeS..
YES - where the hell has Panasonic been in all this? They use to be pioneers but lately...
Richard Allen Crook
Well-known member
Rant/
Here we go with the RED debate again. serously...i will personally donate my spleen if we could get through one new camera thread without a red debate. Its like there are RED police monitoring every blog and forum to immediatley pounce anything that pops up that *may* offer a better option than red. Why do people feel the need to circle the wagons around RED products when finally a camera comes along that 1) makes image improvements by offering what red offers with global shutter, low light capability, and crazy awesome dynamic range, 2) workflow improvements / codec options to make the camera useful for many types of jobs , 3) possibly cheaper?
I'm not trying to be snarky here and maybe its because I'm tired of hearing the election banter but geez enough already, lol. We got it, RED is a nice camera. But it is not the answer for all productions and the feeling that its low dynamic range image is the best is VERY subjective. We can go on and on and on and on...but we got it, lets move on.
/rant
One thing about these new F's that I think is truly game-changing is the fact we finally have a camera that has a WIDE project-friendly range, meaning we now have a camera that can serve many purposes and projects...from compressed, quick turnaround videos for lower budgets and web work to high end cinema level multi million dollar productions and everything in between. We can tell our clients we have the buzzwords RAW and 4k and also be able to shoot a little web video with a fast turnaround.. The old saying "there is not one camera for every job" has its first nail in the coffin. Of course one could argue size is a caveat to that and it doesn't shoot without an external module but hey...it's a start.
Edit: just to clarify, I use RED for many projects but just don't get the whole emotional attachment to them.
Here we go with the RED debate again. serously...i will personally donate my spleen if we could get through one new camera thread without a red debate. Its like there are RED police monitoring every blog and forum to immediatley pounce anything that pops up that *may* offer a better option than red. Why do people feel the need to circle the wagons around RED products when finally a camera comes along that 1) makes image improvements by offering what red offers with global shutter, low light capability, and crazy awesome dynamic range, 2) workflow improvements / codec options to make the camera useful for many types of jobs , 3) possibly cheaper?
I'm not trying to be snarky here and maybe its because I'm tired of hearing the election banter but geez enough already, lol. We got it, RED is a nice camera. But it is not the answer for all productions and the feeling that its low dynamic range image is the best is VERY subjective. We can go on and on and on and on...but we got it, lets move on.
/rant
One thing about these new F's that I think is truly game-changing is the fact we finally have a camera that has a WIDE project-friendly range, meaning we now have a camera that can serve many purposes and projects...from compressed, quick turnaround videos for lower budgets and web work to high end cinema level multi million dollar productions and everything in between. We can tell our clients we have the buzzwords RAW and 4k and also be able to shoot a little web video with a fast turnaround.. The old saying "there is not one camera for every job" has its first nail in the coffin. Of course one could argue size is a caveat to that and it doesn't shoot without an external module but hey...it's a start.
Edit: just to clarify, I use RED for many projects but just don't get the whole emotional attachment to them.
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S. Matthews
Well-known member
I agree and apologize for my posts, I guess I could not respond but it's rather annoying to have rumors and lies perpetuated about something your business relies on(that was not the case here). I'm against unfair treatment and portrayal of any camera as we should be helping each other cut through the manufacturers BS rather than creating and perpetuating it for them. Though I am no exception, and for that I apologize.
On to the F5 and F55, great looking camera's with some great Ideas built in, xlr module, v mount plate, focus hook, native ISO 2000/1600, built in ND's 3 and 6 stops (I think could be wrong). All in all it is a very interesting system and seems like we are moving in the right direction with all the major companies. I can't wait to see the images from these guys and play with some raw files as well as the F55's on board 4k option would love to see how that turns out.
Exciting times ahead folks just don't wait too long as there will always be something better and greater just around the corner, so get out there and shoot now!
On to the F5 and F55, great looking camera's with some great Ideas built in, xlr module, v mount plate, focus hook, native ISO 2000/1600, built in ND's 3 and 6 stops (I think could be wrong). All in all it is a very interesting system and seems like we are moving in the right direction with all the major companies. I can't wait to see the images from these guys and play with some raw files as well as the F55's on board 4k option would love to see how that turns out.
Exciting times ahead folks just don't wait too long as there will always be something better and greater just around the corner, so get out there and shoot now!
Richard Allen Crook
Well-known member
They're not charging anything for them. Yawn.
Fluoro
Well-known member
I thought it was native 1280 ISO in the F55, 2000 ISO on the F5.
Albert Rudnicki
Member
Starcentral
The F55 is rated ISo1200, the f5 is 2000.
Also don't forget that both are bayer sensor cameras, thus after debayering what remains is 3.2K image.
So far only f65 and Epic are true 4k deliverable cams.
Albert
The F55 is rated ISo1200, the f5 is 2000.
Also don't forget that both are bayer sensor cameras, thus after debayering what remains is 3.2K image.
So far only f65 and Epic are true 4k deliverable cams.
Albert
starcentral
Veteran
Fluoro
Well-known member
Yeah I just noticed three of us got it wrong on the f55. Pretty funny.