ALL: Please post any test videos of the new updated 130/160 focus issues
- Thread starter Deer Film
- Start date
Barry_Green
Moderator
The upgrade is not yet available.
You could ask HPX250 owners about their experience, as I imagine that the focus changes would probably be comparable, and the HPX250 update is currently available.
You could ask HPX250 owners about their experience, as I imagine that the focus changes would probably be comparable, and the HPX250 update is currently available.
kwkeirstead
Well-known member
I too am anxious to find out how the AC160A behaves differently.
ChrisHarding
Well-known member
I must admit my 130's seem to grab focus pretty quickly if you use the push auto button.. probably not quite as fast as my still camera but if definately doesn't hunt at all ...it would be interesting to see what focus grab times actually are...if you watch the on screen distance (mine is set to feet) the numbers spin up pretty fast and as soon as they stop I just let go and also check that the distance it decided on is the same as my manual setting. I feel it might be more applicable using the new turbo focus on big zooms...that definately takes a couple of seconds to lock in compared with wide or a small zoom ..... with weddings everything happens fairly slowly so you normally don't even need a fast focus...my top zooms would be from the Church aisle to the lectern when someone does a reading and they will still stop and adjust their notes, clear their throat before talking so there is plenty of time to grab focus even manually!!! I could definately see the benefit if you had to do tight zooms at sporting events!!
Chris
Chris
The Irish TRex
Well-known member
I highly recommend getting a red-dot laser distance measurer (usually found in hardware stores). In churches I usually hit all the focal points from our "master/wide" cam prior to the Ceremony beginning and instantly get all my focus distances so I don't have to push in/focus/pull out like I do with my 2nd, more mobile, cam. It has really helped. Heck, I've even hit the bride's dress (lower part) with the red-dot laser in the middle of the ceremony once because we were forced to move several feet during the service (due to aggressive guests with cameras - ugh). So I calmly hit her with the laser and quickly got my distance. No one noticed. No one screamed "get down!" and I felt like a Seal-Team-6-Wedding-Sniper in the process. Worked like a charm. Just a thought. Sorry I don't have any real input into the original question. Good luck!
ChrisHarding
Well-known member
Thanks TRex
I think Walter was looking at this idea as well as he tends to carry around a 100' tape...I see that eBay also have some ultrasonic ones that can get up to 40' and that eliminates the red dot issue!! With a bit of DIY there is no reason why you couldn't mount one on the cold shoe either!!! I'm not overly fussed about exact focus as I only have a small zoom at weddings so even at F2 your DOF is still massive!! Based on a distance of camera to subject of say 20' at F2 with a lens upped from 3.9 to say 6mm you still are in focus from as little as 4.24' to infinity....however push the zoom to 22X so it's at 86mm and take the camera back to say 50' and assuming you are still at F2, your DOF changes dramatically to only 4.5' so anything closer than 2' in front and 2' behind is going to be out of focus..In these case a laser measurer is definately a worthwhile piece of gear to have!!! Think I will get myself one regardless as they are so darn cheap anyway!!!
Chris
I think Walter was looking at this idea as well as he tends to carry around a 100' tape...I see that eBay also have some ultrasonic ones that can get up to 40' and that eliminates the red dot issue!! With a bit of DIY there is no reason why you couldn't mount one on the cold shoe either!!! I'm not overly fussed about exact focus as I only have a small zoom at weddings so even at F2 your DOF is still massive!! Based on a distance of camera to subject of say 20' at F2 with a lens upped from 3.9 to say 6mm you still are in focus from as little as 4.24' to infinity....however push the zoom to 22X so it's at 86mm and take the camera back to say 50' and assuming you are still at F2, your DOF changes dramatically to only 4.5' so anything closer than 2' in front and 2' behind is going to be out of focus..In these case a laser measurer is definately a worthwhile piece of gear to have!!! Think I will get myself one regardless as they are so darn cheap anyway!!!
Chris
The Irish TRex
Well-known member
The one I got is the Bosch DLR130K. Works like a charm, very fast, very accurate and 130ft range which covers pretty much all venues. I wouldn't mount it because realistically we use it only a few times every wedding but its fun to pull out and watch people look at us like we're nuts, or cool. 
Hard to follow the dot outdoors during the day, but on my HMC150s which have very poor resolution LCD screens, I'll take all the help I can get.
Hard to follow the dot outdoors during the day, but on my HMC150s which have very poor resolution LCD screens, I'll take all the help I can get.Just got a new AC160 last Tuesday, shot a concert with it and my HMC150's and it was a mixed bag with the 160. Had a pretty severe auto focus problem the first half of the show in which it would hold focus for 15 to 20 seconds then go soft until I zoomed out or panned to another musician. Second half of the concert the AC160 performed flawlessly inauto focus. The difference was that in the first half there was a strong side light caused by an open door to the outside that was closed during the second half.
So I am most interested in getting the update ASAP, if it will improve overall auto focus functionality.
I spoke with Panasonic Hollywood about availability of the upgrade kit and they said it should be available "very soon".
On mine I don't get much results with using the push focus button, hopefully when I get the update I can have that addressed as well.
I was pleasantly surprised at how well they (150/160) worked together.
In the meantime I am boning up on using focus assist functions that Barry talks about in his book. That, it would seem, is the surest road to success.
So I am most interested in getting the update ASAP, if it will improve overall auto focus functionality.
I spoke with Panasonic Hollywood about availability of the upgrade kit and they said it should be available "very soon".
On mine I don't get much results with using the push focus button, hopefully when I get the update I can have that addressed as well.
I was pleasantly surprised at how well they (150/160) worked together.
In the meantime I am boning up on using focus assist functions that Barry talks about in his book. That, it would seem, is the surest road to success.
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ChrisHarding
Well-known member
I'm pretty sure that Barry mentioned that the upgrade does not make AF any better (forgive me if I'm wrong Barry!!) The way it was described is that the "A" upgrade is simply going to replace the current "push for auto focus" button with a new turbo push button that grabs focus a lot faster much the same way as a DSLR gets focus for you when you press the shutter down halfway. I don't think Panasonic are doing anything about the full auto focus at all...AFAIK it will still hunt for no reason as it works using a contrast concept to find focus. The autofocus on both the 130 and 160 actually works very well if you are full wide and moving the camera or doing short clips...where it fails is in something like a show where you are running a fairly static camera and have zoomed in a bit too..sure it will find focus quite fast in auto BUT with me it's longer than 20 seconds..maybe up to a minute and the focus starts to go soft and decides to hunt for a new target....the further away you are from the subject and the bigger the zoom makes it progressively worse.... that's because at full wide (3.9mm) and fairly close to the subject (say around 10') the focus can be basically quite badly out but you will never see it due to the enormous depth of field ... with the ring set at 10' you are technically in focus from about 4' to infinity so the AF can position itself anywhere within the DOF range and the image will be acceptably sharp. .... Now go into a theatre and place the camera something like 60' from the stage and zoom in for closeups and your DOF suddenly becomes a tiny 2' either side...a miscalculation by the AF will easily now show up a soft image!! Zoom out as you did and the DOF becomes large again and any error is not noticed!!!
The only practical way to deal with low light/far camera/big zoom scenarios is to turn off the menu AF and use just the front auto/manual focus switch...when you are the theatre switch to manual, hold down the "push for auto" button until the image is sharp and leave it on manual... it cannot hunt in manual....My first wedding had bad hunting and shifting until I used the manual way!!!
Chris
The only practical way to deal with low light/far camera/big zoom scenarios is to turn off the menu AF and use just the front auto/manual focus switch...when you are the theatre switch to manual, hold down the "push for auto" button until the image is sharp and leave it on manual... it cannot hunt in manual....My first wedding had bad hunting and shifting until I used the manual way!!!
Chris
Barry_Green
Moderator
I don't know if the update makes overall AF performance any better; all I know is that they didn't mention any general autofocus improvements. There may be, there may not be. What they did say is that the push auto would be much faster etc.
Well, yeah. Given how crazy lighting can be in a live music show, it seems like any auto-focus system would have issues.
Do you run your camera in full auto mode as well?
Chris, thank you for the fast response!
In re-examining the footage, it looks like my focus issue may have been more due to somewhat tricky lighting, that fooled the AF system.
I have another theatrical shoot this Sunday, I will try your technique and see how she goes.
In re-examining the footage, it looks like my focus issue may have been more due to somewhat tricky lighting, that fooled the AF system.
I have another theatrical shoot this Sunday, I will try your technique and see how she goes.
This time, yes it was on auto as I was "focusing" on helping a new shooter on the stage left cam, with their set-up. She was running my HMC150. Hadn't had this happen before with the 150, so I thought it would be Ok. Your comment about crazy lighting affecting any af system may be right, I might have been just lucky up to this point.
kwkeirstead
Well-known member
@Chris... I am still with my 100' surveyor's tape.
Carrying this around is a minor inconvenience relative to the two-step platform ladder that I usually carry so I can be above the tallest people at an event. Having an 89 inch tripod helps a lot here.
The Bosch DLR130K sounds good. I would caution against mounting it as it could point directly at someone if inadvertently switched on. Having it on a lanyard probably is a better solution.
With the new light you recommended (very nice light) I now have two camera bags to carry, plus a tripod, two very heavy construction lights, and two backpacks filled with 100' extension cords, power bars.
As of next week, I will be adding a Gliders Grey to this. Thank goodness I listened to you and did not go for the Kenyon gyro gear.
So much for trying to be inconspicuous.
At the weekend two-day cultural event that I filmed, one of the entertainers came up and asked me who I was - I responded "I am from the future, here to record your event". They did not say anything after that.
Carrying this around is a minor inconvenience relative to the two-step platform ladder that I usually carry so I can be above the tallest people at an event. Having an 89 inch tripod helps a lot here.
The Bosch DLR130K sounds good. I would caution against mounting it as it could point directly at someone if inadvertently switched on. Having it on a lanyard probably is a better solution.
With the new light you recommended (very nice light) I now have two camera bags to carry, plus a tripod, two very heavy construction lights, and two backpacks filled with 100' extension cords, power bars.
As of next week, I will be adding a Gliders Grey to this. Thank goodness I listened to you and did not go for the Kenyon gyro gear.
So much for trying to be inconspicuous.
At the weekend two-day cultural event that I filmed, one of the entertainers came up and asked me who I was - I responded "I am from the future, here to record your event". They did not say anything after that.
ChrisHarding
Well-known member
Hi Walter
I still just trust the camera as I normally don't need to zoom from distances that I cannot judge...Now I threw out my worklights out as the stands and heads are so heavy and halogen lighting is so hard too!! I use a neat pack which has a head with 8 fittings on it and I have 8 x 55W CFL lamps for it...watt for watt they push out more than halogens and the light is a lot softer too!!!
Good luck on the weekend....what you need is a big decal on the cam saying "QCTV Camera 1" no-one will then question you and will assume you are an important TV cameraman!!
Chris
I still just trust the camera as I normally don't need to zoom from distances that I cannot judge...Now I threw out my worklights out as the stands and heads are so heavy and halogen lighting is so hard too!! I use a neat pack which has a head with 8 fittings on it and I have 8 x 55W CFL lamps for it...watt for watt they push out more than halogens and the light is a lot softer too!!!
Good luck on the weekend....what you need is a big decal on the cam saying "QCTV Camera 1" no-one will then question you and will assume you are an important TV cameraman!!
Chris