Please help Finalize lens selection A7sII

T

tatawaki

Member
Background:
I do about a couple weddings, a couple commercial shoots, and maybe a documentary per year. video is a it's not my full time job (do less than $10K/year). I need/prefer the versatility of zooms however I want to pick up some native primes (they look so much better) for those not so hectic times.

the lenses I have now:
Nikon 24-70, 70-200, 28, 50, 105
Sony 16-35 (fly by wire I do not like.. I haven't gotten use to it in those hectic situations I fiddle more and question the focus.)

things that crossed my mind but of course may change:
- quality. i'd rather get best bang for the buck in my price range.
- cost is somewhat a factor
- want to start going native and get rid the need for adapters.
- change work flow (currently trying use AEL button to switch from MF to AF-C to grab focus on my 16-35)
- size and portability (considering loxia so I throw them in a pouch and be very portable and quick on the feet, If I don't have to lug a huge suit case full of gear would be nice)

I live in a smaller city in canada, so there's no rental place to try these. no loxia, no 85GM, no batis all special order, might be able to try sigma.

85mm (In somewhat of an order of what I think would fit my needs best):
Sony 85mm GM (expensive, creamy and fly by wire consistent enough from what I head)
Loxia 85mm (manual focus, I have some weird fear that I will want to use auto focus for my new lenses although I've been using manual for years. with new cameras and better auto focus coming
Sigma 85 1.4 (focus ring is not smooth for manual focus so I hear, fly by wire?)
Batis 85mm (fly by wire) (will have to get use to the FBW crap)
Nikon 85mm 1.8 (not enough creamy goodness but cheap!)

35mm (in somewhat of an order):
loxia 35 f2 (small, sharp but manual focus)
FE 35 1.4 (sharp, but fly by wire)
sigma 35 art. 1.4 (bulky, is it fly by wire?)

suggestions? has anyone tried these?
 
It doesn't make sense not to use native lenses when you go light and mirrorless. Adapters add bulk and slow you down. The Sony GMs and Batis are great for stills, but they are not ideal for video.

I exclusively use the Loxias for video, also the Sony 90mm macro when I need it. Can't beat the Loxias for compact native primes. Love the Zeiss look. The noticeable focus breathing could be a drawback if that matters to you.

The 90mm is quiet large in comparison, but I find it very good for video for a still lens. It's great for CU and shallow DOF. The manual focus is built for precision macro shots and better than most fly-by-wire lens.
 
The AF on the a7S II is not very good. For today, given what you already have, I would just spend $400 in a couple of vintage Nikon AI lenses and an adapter.

I would only buy modern glass for that body if I was sure I was going to stay in that ecosystem (Sony FE) long enough to end up using bodies with much better AF (and in that case I would go for the 85mm GM, not so sure about the 35mm options).
 
I thought i'd stay in the Nikon camp even for video, D800, D750. however a7S blew them out of the water so I switched, and just don't want to sell my nikon glass just yet since I can still use it on the a7s.
the plan was to switch over to Sony. and will most likely be picking up the A7R/S III when it comes out to replace the a6300.

@VMT - sample work with loxia glass?
 
Finally I upgraded from A7s to A7sII, it was a really tough decision. Most reviewers picked up A7rii over A7sii as the best hybrid camera but I didn't like the noise in the shadows of A7RII even shot in super 35mm mode (when shooting over 1600 ISO).

As a result of that looking to add some glasses to my colllection. Hope tatawaki doesn't mind if I use his thread :)

I currently own:
Sony FE 35mm F2.8
Sony FE 24-70 F4

90% of the time I used Sony FE 24-70 F4 because my 35mm didn't have OSS. According to Dave Dugdale 35mm is less sharper than my zoom lenses.
"However for a prime it is not that sharp, the Sony 24-70mm f4 actually beats this lens in both sharpness and contrast"

What one or two lenses I should get (for video/stills)? Better it's not too heavy to carry around.

Any of these?
Batis 25mm f/2
Sony FE 55mm f1.8
Batis 85mm f/1.8

Or maybe I should get another zoom?

By the way, why you don't like fly by wire? The way I shoot in manual mode, I never have to use the rings... I just click AF button, when the subject is in focus, I switch to manual mode and record.
 
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visata said:
Finally I upgraded from A7s to A7sII, it was a really tough decision. Most reviewers picked up A7rii over A7sii as the best hybrid camera but I didn't like the noise in the shadows of A7RII even shot in super 35mm mode (when shooting over 1600 ISO).

As a result of that looking to add some glasses to my colllection. Hope tatawaki doesn't mind if I use his thread :)

I currently own:
Sony FE 35mm F2.8
Sony FE 24-70 F4

90% of the time I used Sony FE 24-70 F4 because my 35mm didn't have OSS. According to Dave Dugdale 35mm is less sharper than my zoom lenses.
"However for a prime it is not that sharp, the Sony 24-70mm f4 actually beats this lens in both sharpness and contrast"

What one or two lenses I should get (for video/stills)? Better it's not too heavy to carry around.

Any of these?
Batis 25mm f/2
Sony FE 55mm f1.8
Batis 85mm f/1.8

Or maybe I should get another zoom?

By the way, why you don't like fly by wire? The way I shoot in manual mode, I never have to use the rings... I just click AF button, when the subject is in focus, I switch to manual mode and record.
Click to expand...

in fast paced situations I need to be able to grab focus quickly. while I haven't done a full shoot with clicking the AF button, depending on lighting (i shoot weddings) it has taken longer to grab focus than it is to manually focus it. every second can count during these times. I've missed some shots manual focusing because of the small rotation amount from min-infinity on the nikons.

depends on the type of shooting you do. If you like the quality of the FE 24-70 F4, then get the sony 16-35 to round out the focal range. then Sony 70-200 either F4 or GM 2.8. you'd be set for pretty much any situation. my order (will vary on type of video/photography):

zooms
[x] 24-70
[ ] 16-35
[ ] 70-200

Primes
[x] 50/55
[ ] 85
[ ] 35
 
Just a couple of short comments:
* The Batis 18mm is AWESOME (link), the 25mm not nearly as much.
* The Batis 85mm is super sharp, but bokeh is not great. The GM 85mm is not so sharp, but bokeh is suuuuuper nice. Sharpness. Bokeh.

If I had $4k to spend on lenses for an a7 body, it would be the Batis 18mm f/2.0, FE 35mm f/2.8, GM 85mm f/1.4. One super-sharp ultra-wide, one tiny prime, one portrait lens with awesome bokeh.
 
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Samuel H said:
Just a couple of short comments:
* The Batis 18mm is AWESOME (link), the 25mm not nearly as much.
* The Batis 85mm is super sharp, but bokeh is not great. The GM 85mm is not so sharp, but bokeh is suuuuuper nice. Sharpness. Bokeh.

If I had $4k to spend on lenses for an a7 body, it would be the Batis 18mm f/2.0, FE 35mm f/2.8, GM 85mm f/1.4. One super-sharp ultra-wide, one tiny prime, one portrait lens with awesome bokeh.
Click to expand...

You don't like zoom lenses at all, don't you?

What about Sony FE 55mm f1.8?

GM 85mm f/1.4 (1500 EUR) seems pretty expensive compared with Batis (1050 EUR). Isn't Batis good enough? Or it's better to invest into the best lense out there and never regret not buying the best one :)

Are these lenses good for both video/stills?
 
I read some reviews on BH and many people complain about the motor sound on 85 GM. Maybe it's not so suitable for video after all:
"If I was filming with auto focus and want to get a quick focus or use continuous face auto focus my video mic will always pick up the sound the lens makes while it's hunting in continuous focus."
"The motor is loud but seems to quite down after some hours of usage."
"growling sound it produces when autofucusing"

Another thing which I don't like that it's very heavy... it's 820g, my zoom lense (24-70) is only 426g


Focusing noise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syfp4-NRpe8
 
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No, I don't like zooms in general. There are a few good ones (like the Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II) but in general they are softer than comparable primes (specially on wide lenses), and have worse bokeh (a big issue for portraits). Plus, I don't need all the gradation in the world in terms of focal length: if a shot calls for a 28mm FoV, I'd rather use my nice 24mm or 35mm and have a slightly different perspective than use a bad 28mm and have a bad image with the right perspective. I could gladly live with just a 18+35+85.

The FE 55mm f/1.8 is very nice, though it tends to break more than other lenses (the focusing system is first-gen electromagnetic, just llike the 24-70 f/4 BTW; link).

As for the 85mm, both the Batis and the GM are nice, but it depends on what you prefer to have on a portrait lens. For me, it's nice bokeh, that's why I'd go with the GM. But other people care more about sharpness. Or indeed: price! (the fact I don't already own an a7R II with 18+35+85 is proof that I care about that too).
Check the links above and see if they can make you change your mind or not.
 
Samuel H said:
No, I don't like zooms in general. There are a few good ones (like the Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS II) but in general they are softer than comparable primes (specially on wide lenses), and have worse bokeh (a big issue for portraits). Plus, I don't need all the gradation in the world in terms of focal length: if a shot calls for a 28mm FoV, I'd rather use my nice 24mm or 35mm and have a slightly different perspective than use a bad 28mm and have a bad image with the right perspective. I could gladly live with just a 18+35+85.

The FE 55mm f/1.8 is very nice, though it tends to break more than other lenses (the focusing system is first-gen electromagnetic, just llike the 24-70 f/4 BTW; link).

As for the 85mm, both the Batis and the GM are nice, but it depends on what you prefer to have on a portrait lens. For me, it's nice bokeh, that's why I'd go with the GM. But other people care more about sharpness. Or indeed: price! (the fact I don't already own an a7R II with 18+35+85 is proof that I care about that too).
Check the links above and see if they can make you change your mind or not.
Click to expand...

Yes, I read that many people prefer GM over Batis due to the bokeh. I picked mirrorless camera over DSLR due to its compactness and GM kind of defeats the purpose. That annoying focusing sound doesn't look good to me too. I know that every time I would be watching a video shot with 85mm GM, I would hear that annoying autofocusing sound :)

I shoot run & gun style, so don't like carrying many stuff with me. This the reason why I barely use a gimbal. Usually I don't have space or time to prepare everything.

If I get rid of my zoom lense which 2 lenses I should carry around? I would say 55mm (or 35mm is enough? mathematically 55mm is closer to cover all FoV needs than 35mm) as my main lense and 18mm for landscapes? Or I need to buy a bigger case and carry 3 lenses with me 18+35+85. 35mm would be the default one.
 
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I forgot to comment about the noise on the GM 85mm, and it's actually very important: not only is noise a very common complain, but its AF also seems to be very bad in video mode. Link. No idea why. I guess the performance issue could be solved with firmware but don't hold your breath because it probably won't happen. I wouldn't let it AF while I record (so, either manual focus, or pre-shot AF).

Regarding size, you have a point at the 85mm side of things: a7S II with GM 85mm is just as big as 5D3 with 85mm L (link). On the wide side of things, though, mirrorless has a clear size advantage (link).

As for which two lenses to carry around, it depends on how you shoot. For me, if I could only carry one, it whould be a 50mm (probably the 55mm f/1.8, even if it is not as durable as other ones: the image is just great). But if I could carry two, it would be the 18mm and the 85mm. And for three, 18+35+85 (that 35mm f/2.8 is tiny so it doesn't add much weight, really).

5D3 + Milvus 18mm + 40mm pancake + 85mm f/1.2 weights a total of 2736g
a7S II + Batis 18mm + FE 35mm f/2.8 + 85mm GM weights a total of 1897g
 
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Samuel H said:
I forgot to comment about the noise on the GM 85mm, and it's actually very important: not only is noise a very common complain, but its AF also seems to be very bad in video mode. Link. No idea why. I guess the performance issue could be solved with firmware but don't hold your breath because it probably won't happen. I wouldn't let it AF while I record (so, either manual focus, or pre-shot AF).

Regarding size, you have a point at the 85mm side of things: a7S II with GM 85mm is just as big as 5D3 with 85mm L (link). On the wide side of things, though, mirrorless has a clear size advantage (link).

As for which two lenses to carry around, it depends on how you shoot. For me, if I could only carry one, it whould be a 50mm (probably the 55mm f/1.8, even if it is not as durable as other ones: the image is just great). But if I could carry two, it would be the 18mm and the 85mm. And for three, 18+35+85 (that 35mm f/2.8 is tiny so it doesn't add much weight, really).

5D3 + Milvus 18mm + 40mm pancake + 85mm f/1.2 weights a total of 2736g
a7S II + Batis 18mm + FE 35mm f/2.8 + 85mm GM weights a total of 1897g
Click to expand...

For me Batis 85mm is a clear choice due the size. In real usage scenario I would be leaving heavy lenses at home. I excluded Loxia due to the lack of AF. I believe A7sIII would have a good AF system which would work great then. One more thing to consider that when I was reading reviews about the lenses, many people pointed out that lenses are so good nowadays that there are very minimal differences between them (I'm referring to high end class lenses).

Is Batis 18mm better than Batis 25mm?

Not sure what to do with ND filters. Batis 85mm size 77mm, Batis 18mm - 67mm. I need to buy the biggest one and use some kind of adapter? Can I use the hood then? I need 7 stops ND filter, right?
 
visata said:
I excluded Loxia due to the lack of AF. I believe A7sIII would have a good AF system which would work great then.
Click to expand...

This is my debate. With new cameras coming out with better AF I don't want to lose the option of being able use AF. However the fly by wire sucks. Unless I start changing how I use lenses.something I'm not entirely convinced since I've been working manual for 4+ years. Ideally have a lense with AF and consistent focus ring and native mount.
 
visata said:
For me Batis 85mm is a clear choice due the size. In real usage scenario I would be leaving heavy lenses at home. I excluded Loxia due to the lack of AF. I believe A7sIII would have a good AF system which would work great then. One more thing to consider that when I was reading reviews about the lenses, many people pointed out that lenses are so good nowadays that there are very minimal differences between them (I'm referring to high end class lenses).

Is Batis 18mm better than Batis 25mm?

Not sure what to do with ND filters. Batis 85mm size 77mm, Batis 18mm - 67mm. I need to buy the biggest one and use some kind of adapter? Can I use the hood then? I need 7 stops ND filter, right?
Click to expand...


(I posted a reply yesterday, but I put some sponsored links at the end and it seems a mod has deleted the post; I'll try to recall what I wrote, but I'm not sure, there was a link to this but the other two things I talked about are escaping me right now)

edit: this was there as well, and the other thing was that you can use a 77mm filter on a lens with a 67mm front by using a cheap step-up ring, but this means you can't use the original hood, and also it may cause vignetting on a lens as wide as an 18mm
 
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Samuel H said:
(I posted a reply yesterday, but I put some sponsored links at the end and it seems a mod has deleted the post; I'll try to recall what I wrote, but I'm not sure, there was a link to this but the other two things I talked about are escaping me right now)

edit: this was there as well, and the other thing was that you can use a 77mm filter on a lens with a 67mm front by using a cheap step-up ring, but this means you can't use the original hood, and also it may cause vignetting on a lens as wide as an 18mm
Click to expand...

A quick question regarding vignetting, Batis 18mm - 77mm that means that I won't need any step-up ring. Step-up ring might be required for Batis 85mm since it's 67mm. May it still cause vignetting?
 
I read an interesting review about Batis 18mm

He has a good point here regarding the focal length:
a) Ultra wide-angle is not easy to deal with. Think twice do you need it, and would you have knowledge (or patience to learn) how to compose with it. Batis 25/2 offers more convenient wide focal length for every day use, even Loxia 21 does.
Click to expand...

I would suggest to consider focal length as a key difference between Zeiss lenses. Difference between 18.21 and 25mm is quite significant IMHO and because other optical qualities are rather similar (very good), it should be on the top of the priority list. Good news is that you won’t make mistake choosing any of the Zeiss E mount lenses.
Click to expand...

Not sure whether I need so wide lense like 18mm. For wide shots I think 25mm is more than enough let's say for street walking though will be staying in an island for the next 3 months where could possibly shoot many nice landscape photos... I know for sure that for indoor use 35mm is not enough but 25mm might be enough. I don't do any astrography. Now stuck between 18mm and 25mm :) If I bought 25mm + 85mm, I might not even need 35mm?
 
Last year I went to Bali for a couple of weeks, shot my vacation video (here) almost entirely with the Samyang 12mm f/2.0 NCS on APS-C (equivalent to 18mm on FF). For me, 24mm is nice and I use it a lot, but 18mm is even nicer. YMMV.
 
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