Please explain ProRes

7DDude

7DDude

Well-known member
Hello, I'm new to learning the formats and know enough to be dangerous. LOL!

I have been wanting to get a Atmos recorder, and record out of my Sony RX10 HDMI port, I understand that it can output 1080p 60fps 10bit maybe 8bit 4:2:2 ?
However, None of the Atmos Recorders can record in 1080p-60fps, only 1080i 60fps, in Prores 10bit 4:2:2. It has always been my understanding to stay away from any i formats?

Can someone explain this, am I missing something, surely Atmos can't be limiting themselves? If they are, is there any other Recorder that is portable and can capture 1080p 60fps?
 
Your post title is a little misleading as your question isn't really about ProRes, and ProRes isn't limited from 1080p60. The restriction is one of Atomos recorders. 1080p60 is fairly new in the world of HD so not everything supports it yet, and it is still the more the exception rather than the rule. Most often, it is used with the intent of playback at 30p or 24p for slow motion.

It's also not necessarily true that you should "stay away from any 'i' formats." If you're shooting for broadcast, it's likely that you'll be required to deliver in 60i, as interlaced video is still the standard for broadcast. Of course, you can shoot in 30p or 24p and still deliver in 60i if you need to, and if you are shooting for Internet distribution then you should avoid interlaced ("i") video. Pick your acquisition frame rate based on the look you want or that makes the most sense for your story.

If you need some clarity on frame rates, check out THIS tutorial.
 
As far as ProRes goes - it's a very robust codec, and the compression (and motion rendering) is far cleaner than things like AVCHD or H264. Of course, the file sizes are significantly larger than those super-compressed formats.

ProRes includes flavors like HQ, lite, and proxy. You will rarely see a difference between the standard 422 version and HQ - I never can.

ProRes was designed an editing format and many NLEs are optimized to use it without rendering. These days, we have more powerful machines that can edit very compressed formats like H264 and render in the background, but ProRes holds up very well with color correction and effects and transitions, and it can be re-rendered multiple times without visual generational loss - so it's really handy when doing things like effect work in After Effects. You can render those comps out as ProRes vs. image sequences without visual generational loss (within reasonable workflows anyway) and for fast jobs where you need to pre-render many layers and then output a final render, it can stay very clean.

Very few technologies in this business have held their place as long as ProRes has. Apple really nailed it with that one.
 
Michael Carter said:
As far as ProRes goes - it's a very robust codec, and the compression (and motion rendering) is far cleaner than things like AVCHD or H264. Of course, the file sizes are significantly larger than those super-compressed formats.

ProRes includes flavors like HQ, lite, and proxy. You will rarely see a difference between the standard 422 version and HQ - I never can.

ProRes was designed an editing format and many NLEs are optimized to use it without rendering. These days, we have more powerful machines that can edit very compressed formats like H264 and render in the background, but ProRes holds up very well with color correction and effects and transitions, and it can be re-rendered multiple times without visual generational loss - so it's really handy when doing things like effect work in After Effects. You can render those comps out as ProRes vs. image sequences without visual generational loss (within reasonable workflows anyway) and for fast jobs where you need to pre-render many layers and then output a final render, it can stay very clean.

Very few technologies in this business have held their place as long as ProRes has. Apple really nailed it with that one.
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Thank you both very much! Excellent explanations, I never have Broadcast requirements. But I do always want to get the best quality shots as possible. So with the majority of my shots being for the web and some personal work displayed on a HD TV's, Is using a Atmos Recorder just being redundant? I might start to do some color grading, I do do some stuff in AE, but not much. Oh, Is Adobe PP CS6 optimized for ProRes with out rendering?
 
In Premiere Pro you wont need to render ProRes. It's very easy to edit. Now if you start adding filters and plugins to the clip performance will drop depending on the system you're editing on.
 
Thanks Erik! I think I'm going to wait and see how the Shogun recorder works in the field for a while. Atmos emailed my answer that the Shogun will be able to record 1080P 60fps, It's there only recorder that does. I'm thinking of getting a GH4 also,so I think that the Shogun would be a better recorder, especially if I get the GH4. Thanks for everyone's help, sometimes you just need confirmation on your own thoughts and plans. I'm still going to keep my Sony RX10, It really shoots nice 1080P video, I bought it for $950.00, Good bang for the buck I think.
 
At this time the GH4 will not be able to trigger record start and stop with the Shogun. Panasonic hasn't added the protocol to the HDMI output. Hopefully they will support this since a lot of people are going to use the Shogun for a better codec in 4K too.
 
Erik Naso said:
At this time the GH4 will not be able to trigger record start and stop with the Shogun. Panasonic hasn't added the protocol to the HDMI output. Hopefully they will support this since a lot of people are going to use the Shogun for a better codec in 4K too.
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As nice as trigger synchronization would be, I wouldn't consider it a non-starter... you do need to be disciplined, same as dual-system sound. If it's a minimal crew and hectic set, it's a really good idea to use a standard callout to begin every shot - "Camera rolling", "rolling sound", "rolling recorder", slate it and call action. In most small scenarios, the camera operator will also be triggering the recorder - and often the audio recorder as well! So it can be very smart to have someone assigned to just making sure you turned everything on.
 
That's an excellent point! No matter how small the shot or area it's shot in, or even if i'm alone, I'm going to implement this simple verbal protocol to my video work!
Good Stuff!
 
Funny story: got the Tascam DR60D, tested it and was really pleased (it's a great unit for the $$). Did my first shoot with it - client was editing so I just needed to burn it all to a drive.

I noticed I had, say, 75 individual video takes (clips) but only about 30 audio files... you know that moment when all the blood drains from your face (and all your lunch drains from your bowels)??

Anyway, turns out that when you hit STOP on the Tascam, it cuts a new file - when you hit PAUSE, it's the same file. All the data's there and Pluraleyes had no trouble with it... but damn, I was not looking forward to doing ADR on that gig...
 
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