Plastic quality

Postmaster said:
Okay, mine arrived today and I just took it for a spin down town.

After seeing what it does, I don´t give a flying rat´s a....s if the body would be made of card board an plywood.

OMG - that baby´s inner values are insane.

...nuff said!

Frank
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exactly. i know what i'm dealing with plastic-wise. i can deal with it. just like i dealt with all the BS of using a dslr for the past two years. at least the fs100 has the features and tools to properly expose your image. i'd be just as careful with an F3 i assure you. just as i am when shooting with the red or even en ENG cam that is made to take abuse. it's really not that big of a deal.
 
I just spent two hours attaching my FS100 to all my rigs, using all the bolts, and using it outdoors testing it, I have ZERO worry about the body. Everything was locked in tight, nothing felt like it was going to break and I CRANKED down the bolts.

I've never even met anyone that broke their GH1, GH2, 5D, 1D, 7D, T2I, 60D, D90 and I don't find their construction all that amazing. I don't know what it is you feel you are going to deal with. The body feels sturdy to me. Yes, I know what creaking sound now people were talking about, it's when gripping the circular part of the camera, but I never once thought it was going to break AT ALL. The give is SO minor. The top shoe is VERY solid.

I really think a lot of people are making a big deal about something that has no precedence yet. When I see something fail prematurely on the FS100, then I'll recognize an issue.

And let me tell you, floating the camera on my Blackbird stabilizer was AWESOME. Balance not fully worked out, but weight wise it is EXACTLY what I was hoping for.
 
I'm the one that started this interesting thread and I dropped the thing today about a foot (imagine my reaction) and it didn't break. So there's that. I honestly didn't think such a discussion would emerge here about the plastic. People are coming from all sides of the matter - it's a great camera, compromises have to be made, and so on. We're getting into chip size arguments now and that has nothing to do with the plastic. Fun stuff.

Someone above said that when rigged it feels more sturdy and I agree because everything is balanced better and the mount points on the camera are indeed sturdy.

Someone else said Sony of today isn't the Sony of lore... aint that the truth. Apple has become what Sony was in the 80's and early 90's. And Sony still makes some great stuff but as a company seem to have generally lost their way. But that's not the subject of this thread or forum... more for Fortune magazine. :)

I am most annoyed about the FS100 with a) lack of NDs and b) a minor thing really but that plastic scratches easily. And it feels very chintzy, though so far in practice it has held up ok. I suppose that's what matters in the end.

My bottom line - the camera is awesome. It could be better built, but so can anything. The Sony of lore would have built it better, and I think they went a wee bit too far with "light" in the materials for the price. I value things holding up, resale value, not having to worry if I drop it or if it gets hit on a shoot. However, does that make it a bad camera? No. And I hope people didn't think that's where I was coming from. The image still rocks, the functionality is still (mostly) there, and Sony has given us a S35 cinema camera with a clean picture at insane light levels for $5k. There is still something to be said for that; I just hope in the FS-200 that they clean up some of the small issues like the viewfinder location, ND filters, lack of HDSDI and, oh yes, the plastic :)
 
i just rigged mine on the zacuto plate with mattebox and mounted it on the steadicam i just rented for tomorrow's shoot. everything went together with no issues and when mounted on rods, it feels as solid as any camera.

btw, i just found the advantage of the top mount lcd. makes steadicam operating awesome!!!! if i need to swing the cam backwards into the don juan, the flip around lcd makes it easy. if it were a side mount, it would be on the side of the camera away from me and wouldn't do me any good.
 
cheezweezl said:
i just rigged mine on the zacuto plate with mattebox and mounted it on the steadicam i just rented for tomorrow's shoot. everything went together with no issues and when mounted on rods, it feels as solid as any camera.

btw, i just found the advantage of the top mount lcd. makes steadicam operating awesome!!!! if i need to swing the cam backwards into the don juan, the flip around lcd makes it easy. if it were a side mount, it would be on the side of the camera away from me and wouldn't do me any good.
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Yes good point about steadicam, hadn't thought of that!
 
I ran around the yard earlier with my Blackbird rig and indeed found the same thing. the LCD placement is PERFECT for that use for me.
 
So used the FS100 the WHOLE day today. And my first impression is that Sony really went with a compact design. Which would explain the ergonomics.

Love all the 1/4-20 threads we get.

And the plastic? I call it a hard plastic. It feels and looks quite sexy.
 
As Barry Green stated (thanks Barry) I've always been a huge fan of Sony products. When the PDW-350 came out, I went out and bought one after Sony UK where kind enough to loan me a unit for a few weeks; I thought that camera was superb. I did a recent review of the PMW-350 and that review glows 100%. In fact I say that if I could only own one camera, the PMW-350 would be it. I felt the EX1 (I personally wrote and produced the Sony Europe 30 minute informercial on this camera 3 months before it was available to buy) was the first real sign of flakey build quality for Sony; some say it dates back to before the VX1000.

Postmaster, the FS100 does produce good images, but professionals won't use them as they are just too finicky to use and they WILL break in the hands of a Pro.

mico, I feel the FS100 is or worse build quality than the EX1, and the EX1 is bad enough.

Can any FS100 owner actually press the White Balance button without the aid of a fine ball-point pen ;)
 
Cutting corners is Sony's trade mark isn't it? Bloody joke. No wonder the Japs are having problems......
 
Nigel-Cooper said:
Postmaster, the FS100 does produce good images, but professionals won't use them as they are just too finicky to use and they WILL break in the hands of a Pro.
Can any FS100 owner actually press the White Balance button without the aid of a fine ball-point pen ;)
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Really? That's a pretty strong statement. What would you say about professionals using dslr's? The fact is that they use dslr's and they'll use this camera. I include myself in this by the way. I'll accept the build quality issues in order to have a $5000 super35 cam. Anything to not have to shoot on dslr's again.
I also have no problem with the wb button and I have big hands.
 
LowDown, professionals don't use DSLRs, they Use Panavisions and Arri for Hollywood movies. TV commercials are also 35mm film, or Varicam or HDCAM, and soaps and the like are also Varicam, HDCAM or Digibeta or D9 type equipment for SD.
There is a difference between a Professional using something, and something being used for Professional applications.

I agree LowDown, it is a bit of a strong statement. Not sure how it is in the USA, but in the UK if you asked the GTC (Guild of TV Cameramen) to do a survey and ask all it's members if a 5D MK2 was a professional camera used by professionals I can almost certainly say close to 100% of them would say "No Way".

I can't understand people who try and justify their purchases by trying to convince themselves that what they own is used by professionals and is professional kit.

One of the most well known Professionals, Steven Spielberg, doesn't bang on like this, in fact, he doesn't even own any kit to envy yours. I very much doubt Mr Spielberg grabs a Panavision from his broom cupboard each time he wants to make a new movie, guess what, he doesn't even shoot his own movies ;) Just kidding around with you LowDown; trying to make a point.

If an agent in the UK asked me to shoot a TV commercial in England for Volvo cars, guess what, I certainly wouldn't reach for my AF101. I'd hire a crew with cine kit; that's what professionals do.
 
Nigel-Cooper said:
LowDown, professionals don't use DSLRs, they Use Panavisions and Arri for Hollywood movies. TV commercials are also 35mm film, or Varicam or HDCAM, and soaps and the like are also Varicam, HDCAM or Digibeta or D9 type equipment for SD.
There is a difference between a Professional using something, and something being used for Professional applications.

I agree LowDown, it is a bit of a strong statement. Not sure how it is in the USA, but in the UK if you asked the GTC (Guild of TV Cameramen) to do a survey and ask all it's members if a 5D MK2 was a professional camera used by professionals I can almost certainly say close to 100% of them would say "No Way".

I can't understand people who try and justify their purchases by trying to convince themselves that what they own is used by professionals and is professional kit.

One of the most well known Professionals, Steven Spielberg, doesn't bang on like this, in fact, he doesn't even own any kit to envy yours. I very much doubt Mr Spielberg grabs a Panavision from his broom cupboard each time he wants to make a new movie, guess what, he doesn't even shoot his own movies ;) Just kidding around with you LowDown; trying to make a point.

If an agent in the UK asked me to shoot a TV commercial in England for Volvo cars, guess what, I certainly wouldn't reach for my AF101. I'd hire a crew with cine kit; that's what professionals do.
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Now that's some old school thinking.
 
Nigel-Cooper said:
LowDown, professionals don't use DSLRs, they Use Panavisions and Arri for Hollywood movies. TV commercials are also 35mm film, or Varicam or HDCAM, and soaps and the like are also Varicam, HDCAM or Digibeta or D9 type equipment for SD.
There is a difference between a Professional using something, and something being used for Professional applications.

I agree LowDown, it is a bit of a strong statement. Not sure how it is in the USA, but in the UK if you asked the GTC (Guild of TV Cameramen) to do a survey and ask all it's members if a 5D MK2 was a professional camera used by professionals I can almost certainly say close to 100% of them would say "No Way".

I can't understand people who try and justify their purchases by trying to convince themselves that what they own is used by professionals and is professional kit.

One of the most well known Professionals, Steven Spielberg, doesn't bang on like this, in fact, he doesn't even own any kit to envy yours. I very much doubt Mr Spielberg grabs a Panavision from his broom cupboard each time he wants to make a new movie, guess what, he doesn't even shoot his own movies ;) Just kidding around with you LowDown; trying to make a point.

If an agent in the UK asked me to shoot a TV commercial in England for Volvo cars, guess what, I certainly wouldn't reach for my AF101. I'd hire a crew with cine kit; that's what professionals do.
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Nigel, I'm afraid they do. I don't care for shooting on dslrs but in the last year I've shot on a number of jobs that requested them. Off the top of my head, there was million dollar campaigns for Dodge ram trucks and recently one for chevy ( although this eventually went to the F3 ). Also, I just shot the new video for "the Kings of Leon" on 5d's. I don't even own a 5d but if the producer requests it, I'll shoot on it and it worked well for this job. In the last three months I've shot on 35mm, 16mm, red, F3, fs100, 5d, 7d, whatever the budget allows or the shoot demands.
I'd love to shoot every job on my Red but it's not always the right camera for the job. I bought the fs100 to not have to shoot on dslrs and deal with moire, skew, no xlrs etc. I've shot 2 jobs with it already and think that it's a great interim camera, not perfect ,but a great little camera.
I think that I see where you are coming from though when you say there is a difference between professional kit and kit used by professionals. This makes sense if you are talking about build quality but a professional should be able to make any camera shine and work around it's limitations. It all comes down to the right tool for the job. I wouldn't expect a TV cameraman to choose anything other than a shoulder mounted camera but I'm not a TV cameraman. I've been doing this for 20 years and would consider myself a professional (at least the people who hire me would like to think so). I'm not trying to justify a purchase, just taking issue with your "no professionals will use this camera" statement. They will.
What has Spielberg got to do with this argument? He's a director and producer, not a cinematographer.

Regards,
Shane.
 
Have you asked yourself why they where shot on a 5D. Ford cars shot a TV commercial for Ford in India on a 5D also. This doesn't make it a professional camera, just research a little and figure out why they where shot on a 5D. Again, you are simply trying to convince yourself that because a few TV commercials where shot on a cheap DSLR, then YOU too must be a professional. It's truly laughable.

I was down at Pinewood studios a few weeks ago standing a few feet from a 35mm motion picture film camera, but that doesn’t make me a professional DOP.

Most things shot in any professional capacity on a 5D MK2 or similar is simply because of size restraints, no budget, or marketing spin from Canon i.e. Canon pay for the entire shoot, crew etc to sell more SLRs to the masses.

To be honest, folk get too caught up in equipment. You should just get out there and make a movie, shoot a TV commercial or do that corporate on whatever kit you have, it is the user, not the equipment.
 
I am very much looking forward to owning an FS100 because onboard sound and long roll times seem to meet what my clients need it to do

but DSLR will always be essential in my kit..

they are just so light for rigging

and I can afford more than one

the only thing IMO that would stop me using DSLRs is an affordable modular chip in a box camera absolutely minimal
 
Nigel,

I agree 100% that the 5D is not a pro camera. However, to say that dslrs aren't used in a professional capacity is wrong. How I wish that were true. I hate using them for the same reasons everyone else does. But here in America, there are big things being shot with dslrs. I'm not just talking about low budget music videos. I'm talking about projects where just about any camera could be chosen. Big primetime network tv shows have used them. ASC cinematographers use them. Huge directors use them.

I agree that there are a lot of noobs that bought dslrs calling themselves dp's, but that doesn't mean if you use a dslr, you become one of them.
 
Out of his depth as always poor Nigel. Not good enough years ago regarding xdcam hd and not good enough now. Just closje your .website Mate and go in peace!
 
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