Plastic quality

If you look at 1:16 from the F-Stop Academy clip, take a look at the brain storming whiteboard, no where does it indicate 'sturdy frame'! They were merely brainstorming the function against the competition! lol
 
As much I would FS100 to be built like a tank, it's merely a bridge to something bigger and better. It will most likely will become outdated in just 3-5 years or even sooner. Most of us on this forum (early adopters) won't be shooting with FS100 in couple of years for sure. Sony probably rushed this out the door too. Things like build quality will improve as this new ear of large sensor camera takes off (and other manufactures jump in the game).

Now, I opinion might change if B&H can get off their butt, stop taking vacations and ship my FS100 so I can play with it in person!
 
jetswing said:
As much I would FS100 to be built like a tank, it's merely a bridge to something bigger and better. It will most likely will become outdated in just 3-5 years or even sooner. Most of us on this forum (early adopters) won't be shooting with FS100 in couple of years for sure.
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So true. It´s becoming hard to make enough money with one camera to afford the next one when it comes out.

Frank
 
On another thread I made some criticism about the DR of the camera and I was met with a lot of hostility. I did not say that I expected a 4k 15 stop dr camera for $ 5000, but as they had the same sensor (they, sony, communicated a lot about it) that it was not unreasonable to expect about the same as the f3. They already had crippled it without 10 bit and hdsdi at least I thought. My conclusion was that it was the video world community in part that were responsible of that. The fact of seeing people defend so much a product against any criticism is beyond my understanding. If the customers are not critical who will be. If you see the level of criticism the photo camera manufacturers face compared to the video world you would understand why the large sensor camera revolution came from another market.

If you said to someone 3 years ago that you could get a 35mm size sensor camera shooting HD video for less than $ 1000 he would send you to an asylum. Not having a 10 bit output in a $ 5000 camera in 2011 for me is too much. As I always do, I will vote with my wallet with a gh2, I have seen a DR test (not scientific) that I don't think the image quality difference warrant for my need the expense. I am not going to shoot everytime at night and lighting is the essence of my work (photographer and hoping filmmaker). I do understand that others have other need. I really wanted this camera (supposed was to be baby f3) because I though even if I have to invest a bit more (Nikon shooter, invested in Canon 7d) and don't need to worry anymore about image quality for the foreseeable future. But for me... in terms of image quality it is not a real step up except low light. Now with the report about build quality surfacing, I am glad I did not take the plunge. It is as if Sony has reluctantly produce a camera to get into the $ 5000 but in doing so they did cut everything they could in the way.
 
I've not had a problem with the build quality yet, but I shoot with it this weekend, so I'll have to defer to next week to respond. I took the handle off after trying it, do not like.

For me, I DO NOT want a heavier body so I am fine with the plastic. That was one of the reasons I bought the FS100. Lighter than the AF100 and smaller so it fits in a lot of my gear. We all have different needs.
 
This is a good thread. I'm happy to see I'm not the only one. IQ is lovely and build quality is OK but they could have done better. It's still FIVE THOUSAND dollars. If I pay 5K for an Apple computer for example, I get a tank. It's borderline insulting to the customer. Lol
 
The build quality isn't what people will see when they watch what we shoot but @5K I do think a decent body is a reasonable request. I don't beat the daylights out of my gear but it sometimes takes a licking and needs to keep ticking (sorry for the cliche ;-)!
 
Is it the case the metal materials in professional audio/video have a significant markup even from ODM resellers?

If that is the case, perhaps this is why Sony had to leave the sturdy chassis off the list.
 
Until I see a broken FS100, it's a lot of guessing at this point. When I compare it to my AF100, I just don't see a night and day difference myself. If I dropped any of them I'd be afraid of them breaking, and add the 7D to that list as well. I've been more afraid of breaking the LCD off of the AF100 than on the FS100 as well. It hangs out like a flag on the side, feel like I should put a tennis ball on it :)

Maybe if they offered multiple cases like Red is supposed to do, could have been an idea. But like I said, I needed light, and this is perfect.
 
I don't see any difference between my fs100 and my recently sold ex1r in build quality. And I sold my EX1R for alot more than what the fs100 cost and i never had any problems with the build of the Ex1R. Its plastic, no mystery there about how you should treat it. This camera isn't brittle like its gonna snap at any minute. If you're worried buy insurance. In the meantime you got a clean, any lens adaptable, solid 1080p S35 image camera that weighs sonly 2.5 lbs. If you want a 8lb, sans lens, tank with 10 bit and 12 stops DR theres cameras that have that and they cost 3 times the price or more. If you accuse the fs100 of not being worth the money then you should also accuse the 3 times the price or more tanks like RED Epic or F3 for not costing 5K because it seems thats what some here want: a red epic or F3 for $5k. It doesn't exist.
 
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mico said:
I don't see any difference between my fs100 and my recently sold ex1r in build quality. And I sold my EX1R for alot more than what the fs100 cost and i never had any problems with the build of the Ex1R. Its plastic, no mystery there about how you should treat it. This camera isn't brittle like its gonna snap at any minute. If you're worried buy insurance. In the meantime you got a clean, any lens adaptable, solid 1080p S35 image camera that weighs sonly 2.5 lbs. If you want a 8lb, sans lens, tank with 10 bit and 12 stops DR theres cameras that have that and they cost 3 times the price or more. If you accuse the fs100 of not being worth the money then you should also accuse the 3 times the price or more tanks like RED Epic or F3 for not costing 5K because it seems thats what some here want: a red epic or F3 for $5k. It doesn't exist.
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I think insurance companies are going to lose lots of money on the FS100 by the looks of it early on.

If it is as fragile as people say then this is a camera that is providing an easy way out for many people towards the end of their insurance agreement (i.e. 'Accidental Damage Handling').

Therefore for those of you who didn't already, buy the insurance for the FS100 as it is at a great discount. Obviously these insurance companies don't do risk assessments for each and every electronic product. They simply use a generic 'price band' to determine the corresponding insurance price.

This reminds me of the first Xbox that hit the market, with the Red Ring of Death after the fact, insurance companies raised their rates and excluded the 'RRD' defect from their list of covered defects.

Also it's not really 'insurance' per se as there is NO deductible!
 
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Here I'll put to to you simply ecto, the build quality isn't any different from Sonys other cameras. Tons were sold and no one has complained about their build quality. If you don't have an FS100 don't prognosticate on how insurance companies are going to lose money and maybe you should use the camera before making such statements because one person had an issue. You're making more of an issue of it than it should be causing the the issue to spread and never die.
Use the camera, abuse the camera then come back and state your case , until then you should use some discretion.
 
I just got my FS-100 and in fiddling with it for the past few hours, I have to say that I am not that disappointed at all with the plastic body. I don't believe that Sony cheaped out on it, considering the capabilities they have delivered in a rather affordable little camera. Now, the side handle and the "Viewfinder", that is another story. Those add ons really do feel rather cheap. If we are talking druthers..... What I want is a large sensor camcorder with the fit finish and form factor of the PD-150. I think that magnesium body is a wonderful example of industrial design. Oh well, Sony didn't ask me.
 
mico said:
Here I'll put to to you simply ecto, the build quality isn't any different from Sonys other cameras. Tons were sold and no one has complained about their build quality. If you don't have an FS100 don't prognosticate on how insurance companies are going to lose money and maybe you should use the camera before making such statements because one person had an issue. You're making more of an issue of it than it should be causing the the issue to spread and never die.
Use the camera, abuse the camera then come back and state your case , until then you should use some discretion.
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My camera is coming this Friday. And Paul Antico is well respected here so I am taking his first hand account seriously.

Also did you read Nigel Cooper's review?
http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=268

Phillip Bloom's?
http://www.vimeo.com/23344796

Among others, they all say the same thing, the chassis is flimsy. I'm sorry that I don't work for Sony, but everything points to a flimsy physical design.

When the chassis nearly cracks, there is some concern there.

I will be testing the FS100 myself shortly and will conduct my own conclusion.

However if a Product is that fragile, and if it does have an associated extended warranty that covers physical damage, then that is very risky for the insurance company.
 
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When I said tons were sold I meant EX1's and EX3's which I have stated as a former owner are of similar build quality to the Fs100 . Theres actually a video on here from a year ago of an EX1 that falls over on its tripod while rolling and it still kept working, nothing broken. i was looking for it but can't find it.

I meant cameras in the same price range. The F3 tank is 3 times the price. Really, do I have to be so specific ?

Nigel Coopers review has been widely dismissed by most people who also got a pre production camera. His criticism of several things turned out to be mistaken and I just felt his whole review was a slap at Sony for not asking him to be part of the design team of the camera when others like Den Lennie were asked. It seemed personal.

Philip Who? Isn't he the guy that takes still video images and also makes money training DSLR use ?

I've got the camera in front of me. I've attached a dozen lenses on and off it. Took adaptors on and off.. Mounted it on several different rigs. Mounted it upside down. Used the top handle it came with whipped it around upside down and I've had no problem. The flip up lcd actually feels sturdier and stronger than the EX1 . My only complaint is the side grip handle which could have been so much better but i wont use it anyway.

No matter what the reality is I feel you have such a firm belief in its sub standard quality, when you don't even have one, that the camera is now too tainted for you. When you receive yours you will only find fault. Save up for the F3
 
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a bunch of FUD happening here to people to haven't had the camera in hand but are worried that they are gonna blow $5k on a plastic toy. it's NOT THAT BAD. yes, it's plastic. so is the bumper on my BMW. but underneath is some metal structure of some kind. same with the camera. the ex1 has at least some exterior parts that are metal, but still i treat my ex1 with kid gloves, like i treat ALL cameras. these are not power tools meant to be tossed around the workshop. if you are as careful as you should be with ANY pro camera, you'll be fine. i've been shooting with mine for a week now and i'm really digging the size and weight. it can be stealthy like a dslr, but has the proper exposure and focus tools of a REAL video camera. and the image is superior to ANYTHING this size/price. it really is stellar. i just got done drooling over a big panoramic wide shot taken with my tokina 11-16. my 7D (in video mode) would never resolve what this lens delivered, but this camera does it. it really shines when given small details.
 
mico said:
When I said tons were sold I meant EX1's and EX3's which I have stated as a former owner are of similar build quality to the Fs100 . Theres actually a video on here from a year ago of an EX1 that falls over on its tripod while rolling and it still kept working, nothing broken. i was looking for it but can't find it.

I meant cameras in the same price range. The F3 tank is 3 times the price. Really, do I have to be so specific ?

Nigel Coopers review has been widely dismissed by most people who also got a pre production camera. His criticism of several things turned out to be mistaken and I just felt his whole review was a slap at Sony for not asking him to be part of the design team of the camera when others like Den Lennie were asked. It seemed personal.

I've got the camera in front of me. I've attached a dozen lenses on and off it. Took adaptors on and off.. Mounted it on several different rigs. Mounted it upside down. Used the top handle it came with whipped it around upside down and I've had no problem. The flip up lcd actually feels sturdier and stronger than the EX1 . My only complaint is the side grip handle which could have been so much better but i wont use it anyway.

No matter what the reality is I feel you have such a firm belief in its sub standard quality, when you don't even have one, that the camera is now too tainted for you. When you receive yours you will only find fault. Save up for the F3
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I'm sorry but I don't live my life in suspension of disbelief. Even though I dropped $6K for this thing, I don't want to have to pretend to like it.

I can live with a crappy design. But in the end I probably will like the FS100 for it's small form factor and great low light ability.

I can't dismiss the fact that someone on this forum nearly had the chassis cracked. Even if it is only one person, it takes only one piece of evidence to render the product unreliable.
 
If one is careful with it you'll be ok. It will get scratched up fairly easily around the mount points but unless you drop it or have an accident like I did it should last.

All Sony camcorders aren't built like this. I've used the F3. Its plastic too but far better quality (and heavier and a lot more expensive.). My Sony HDV camcorder from years ago was better built. The 5D and 7D are stills cameras and shouldn't really be compared but as they're used for video I'll at least point out they're made of magnesium.

If you don't toss the camera about like a 5D can be handled it should be fine. But it must be cared for or it will either break or look battle scarred quickly diminishing resale value (if you care about that; I do.)

The same can't be said for the EVF attachment. It's a piece of crap albeit vaguely functional. Some would argue the handle is too lousy. I'm ok with it so far as a mic holder goes. I attached a Zacuto EVF which is light to it via an accessory arm and the handle started to lean/twist a tad.

If the camera was made out of the same plastic as the grip I'd be happier. But it's hardly a deal breaker. The image is amazing for the cost and has much less compromise in operation than a DSLR. I just hope in the next version they think things though a bit better. We should get better plastic for 5K, that's all.
 
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