PL to micro4/3 adapter

[Ticheli]

Wow so to get really good pictures out of this camera, you need prime lenses or CP lenses which are good but still cost $ 3500 plus an adapter $ 1700 + this + that oh nano flash $ 3000 422 at only 8 Bit seems to me a lot of add on's for a good picture! so the camera $ 4500 is only the tip of the cost. Not such a cheap camera for only 24bit AVCHD. Is it me or is just the King has new cloths

You don't need expensive lenses to make great pictures. You don't need an outboard recorder to make great pictures.

However everyone with any experience at all knows that a camera body is but a part of a total cinema package. A major advantage of the AF100 is that it's quite capable right out of the box with a fairly inexpensive lens. Are cine lenses better? Sure they are and for some things they are necessary. Is a recorder signal better? Of course, but you can make pretty pictures without one.

One should remember that most of the extra items you buy for your AF100 will live on to serve you long after the body is obsolete. That's why I think of the body as expendable, like raw film stock. In fact, I've often spent more on film for a single commercial than the total cost of the AF100. By the way, the dollars we spent on film were worth a lot more than they are today, so the AF100 is an even bigger bargain.

Good shooting and best regards,

Leo

 

[DekraDTM]

hi.
do you know if this adapter is good like hot rod pl mount(except for the support)?
does someone have tested and used it?
http://www.mtfservices.com/home.html?page=shop.product_details&product_id=99&category_id=2&flypage=flypage.tpl

Regarding shimming with this product...I inquired via email.

"
Hi Hunter, thanks for getting in touch.

The build quality, as with all MTF products is excellent.
The body is anodised HE30 aluminium and the M43 mount is stainless steel.

It is possible to shim under the M43 mount and I have had to do so with some of these from an earlier batch.
But since then, all of the adaptors, once assembled have not required any shimming.

Generally, the adaptor, like a camera is set correctly and should be within a 0.01mm tolerance.

I hope this helps.

Kindest regards
Mike Tapa

MTF Services Ltd.
52 Palmerston Rd
London N22 8RF
UK

 

[Illya Friedman]

...It is possible to shim under the M43 mount and I have had to do so with some of these from an earlier batch.

I could be wrong, but I believe Mike is recommending shimming under the camera m4/3 mount.

It's not a bad thought. Unfortunately the m4/3 mount wasn't designed for that, and I'm guessing attempting to do so would likely void your Panasonic warranty. The screws that go into the camera side mount have a low cycle count (purposely) and are intended to be replaced rather than taken in and out repeatedly. Shimming at this point obviously does nothing for the inherent play between the micro 4/3 male and female surfaces.

Panasonic does a good job (better than some others) with sensor distances, but they are not the +/- 5 microns required to hit the numbers on cine glass.

 

[biginvegas]

Ilya,

Just a little confused, need clearing up before ordering... I have an Af100 on pre-order for my production company and will do rentals as well on the unit.
I own the Hot Rod PL deluxe for my GH1 and want to be able to use the PL of course with the AF.
For tripod use it seems I will need the X-baseplate and PL support chassis for heavier PL lenses...

For handheld I use the Hot Rod Pl deluxe as is or combo with manfrotto 577 quick release to a shoulder rig, how would I configure the AF to handheld with that baseplate that has it set for Sachtler V20/V18 and Cartoni Gamma/Delta tripod systems that I dont own nor intend to purchase?
Is the the Manfrotto 577 quick release to small for the AF100? I own a Libec tripod with H38 fluid head.

 

[taubkin]

Dudes, rent the adapter when you rent your 50K's worth of PL glass. Why would you want to OWN a PL adapter if you are already scared by it's price?

 

[izoneguy]

Dudes, rent the adapter when you rent your 50K's worth of PL glass. Why would you want to OWN a PL adapter if you are already scared by it's price?

Yes, I would put in calls to your local rental houses and see which ones will be getting the PL to m4/3 adapters. I would imagine that any rental house that has several sets of prime lenses to rent out would want to broaden it's customers base of potential renters.

 

[Rolf Silber]

Dudes, rent the adapter when you rent your 50K's worth of PL glass. Why would you want to OWN a PL adapter if you are already scared by it's price?

Lots of things seem to go helter-skelter in the discussions here.... speaking strictly for me: I would rather trust an expensive adapter like the Hot-Rod exactly for the reason given by you. But I like to own it so I have it with me when a PL glass "comes my way"... My approach currently is: Have "the system" open to maximum possible connectivity without the need to own everything I want it to connect with. But then, my situation may be different to people living directly from the actual process of shooting.

Maybe one of the problems of our discussions here is that the AG-AF seems to be so versatile that a lot of different possible approaches to shooting get mixed.... which, in the end, may be a sign of the real quality of this cam. A clever tool.

 

[Illya Friedman]

I own the Hot Rod PL deluxe for my GH1 and want to be able to use the PL of course with the AF.
For tripod use it seems I will need the X-baseplate and PL support chassis for heavier PL lenses...

Yes, exactly correct. Actually you can use the X-Baseplate all the time, with or without the PL mount and PL Support Chassis.

For handheld I use the Hot Rod Pl deluxe as is or combo with manfrotto 577 quick release to a shoulder rig, how would I configure the AF to handheld with that baseplate that has it set for Sachtler V20/V18 and Cartoni Gamma/Delta tripod systems that I dont own nor intend to purchase?
Is the the Manfrotto 577 quick release to small for the AF100? I own a Libec tripod with H38 fluid head.

You do not need to own a Sachtler, Cartoni, or any particular brand of tripod for the X-Baseplate. You can bolt on you 577 tripod plate to any of the (7x) 1/4" or (8x) 3/8" screw holes on bottom of the X-Baseplate (Sachtler/Cartoni compatible quick release bottom plate). Mounting the 577 is like you would on any other baseplate (or camera); except the X-Baseplate gives you several options in line with the optical axis, and well as slightly to the left or right of the optical axis. Which is particularly handy if you want to go for larger set-ups.

For hand held use, if you have a rod-mounted shoulder support, the entire Sachtler/Cartoni compatible QR tripod support portion of the baseplate is removable (without tools) in about 15-seconds. This part of the mount is very, very strong, and quite lightweight, and also compatible with Arri studio plates. That being said having a little extra mass below the camera moves the AF100/101/105 center of gravity lower, since it's adjustable back to front, you may actually prefer a more balanced lower center of gravity to help remove hand-held camera shake. And as I just mentioned, if you prefer to shed every ounce, you can also remove it quickly.

As for the Libec head being too small- it will depends on your configuration and planned use. If you are planning on shooting mostly in "studio mode", then yes, that 75mm head is too small for the AF100. Of course I'm biased; I don't like 75mm heads even for small DSLRs even in "lightweight" set-ups. I'm firmly in the camp that the 100mm ball head size is more stable, more flexible, less susceptible to wind and creaky floors, and will in general produces better looking shots than any 75mm head. Now if you are really run and gun, 1-man-band shooting most of the time, a very small head and light weight tripod may be more of an asset, compared to a larger, heavier, and more stable head. I could be wrong, but I don't think most people interested in the AF100 will be running round like mad- Philip Bloom-style. There's nothing wrong with shooting like that. And if those are the kinds of gigs you do, or the way you like to shoot, there are some tripod products designed for extreme mobility, but the trade off is that they are not as good when it comes to shooting in studio mode. The 1-man-band/run n' gun obviously requires really light gear, and if that's your scenario perhaps your current tripod will work fine for you. I'm not familiar with your exact head so I really can't advise in terms more specific than this.

Hope that helps,

 

[biginvegas]

Yep gotcha. My run n gun approach conflicts with the needs of the rentals I am doing, so will have to invest in the larger 100mm tripod at some point. Will be in touch soon.

 

[Squirrel]

I have used the MTF PL adaptor to use Zeiss CP.2's on a production model AF101 (UK version). There was no play and witness marks were accurate. The Zeiss lenses come with an excellent shim kit, torque driver and instructions in case you need to shim. The shims are used between the lens body and the Zeiss mount. Quality of materials / machining was first class - Highly recommended.

 

[Illya Friedman]

The Zeiss lenses come with an excellent shim kit, torque driver and instructions in case you need to shim. The shims are used between the lens body and the Zeiss mount.

I should probably stop reading DVXuser late at night... But reading this makes me feel compelled to dispel some myth.



Shimming a lens to get accurate focus marks because a camera mount is out of spec is a tactic of desperation and last resort; doing this means two very unappealing side effects.

1) Lenses shimmed to compensate for a inaccuracy of Flange Focal Depth at the mount means that those lenses will only work on THAT individual camera and no others- so forget sharing those lenses among multiple cameras.
2) Same holds true for using any additional lenses on that camera that are actually calibrated correctly, they will now all be off.

You always, always want the mount and lenses to both be correct, not adjusting one to suit the other. This would be a fireable offense at some major rental houses if someone rented a 35mm package and the lenses were shimmed to the body. By doing this, you cheat yourself from the maximum function and benefit of your lenses, and your camera.

Now undoubtedly some here have probably heard "Oh just re-shim the lenses when you want them to work on a different camera." If you heard this it was probably spoken by someone who has not actually done the job. Re-shimming a lens is not a field procedure, nor should it be. It can't be quickly done on set with what is included in the interchangeable mount kit. Repeating the task through trial and error (per the instructions), and using the driver and a chart is something that should be done when you are not in an uncontrolled environment or have cast and crew waiting on you! It can take you a while just for one lens, and if you have to re-shim an entire set, plan on spending some significant time to get this correct.

Keep in mind as I say this, I am a Zeiss dealer, I make income from selling these lenses. I also believe that sales should only be made with all the information out on the table. Many people in this business just want to 'make the sale' and gloss over any/all potential hazards, I know because I get phone calls from people that have felt that they purchased lenses (obviously from someone else) and that all the information to make an informed decision wasn't given, or perhaps worse, it was assumed that if someone was spending tens of thousands on lenses that they were already aware of this! This infuriates me, in part because in the past I've been that person who bought first and had that "gotcha" moment later.

Shimming lenses to an out of spec flange distance is the drawback of "Cine" lenses when they are in EF mount, and does NOT need to exist when the lenses are in PL. The other drawback to any cine lenses in EF mount is rotational play. This has everything to do with EF mount standard and nothing to do with Zeiss or any other lens manufacturer, that sells lenses this way. Having some play is inherent in the way the EF mount is designed, the same issue also exists in micro 4/3, E-Mount and others. The presence of play is not important 99.999% of the time when taking still photos (which was what these mounts were originally designed for) and that same play could ruin an otherwise perfect take when shooting HD.

I've never, ever heard from anyone that rented an EF mount set of CP.2 lenses and used them on their own (non-rental house) camera that got matching marks, or was free from rotational movement. A lens adapter mated like a lens in these SLR mounts "with no play" and without an engineered external support is akin to the Easter Bunny- it doesn't exist.

You don't have to take my word for it. I've already got the heads up from a trusted associate who recently became aware of a company rushing to reverse-engineer (or perhaps I should say rip-off) the Hot Rod PL design, support and baseplate to retrofit one of their current products in hopes of selling as a direct competitor to the Tuner kit for a few dollars less.

I'm not too worried, as soon as they build a bunch of units they'll quickly discover that PL mounts and PL mount lenses are a TINY and specialized (demanding) fraction of the market. I (and everyone else) could make a lot more money building products for more entry-level/lowest common denominator customers who are less discerning. But that would be disingenuous to who I am, and what I love to do. Besides, I feel honored to have a fiercely loyal clientele, and I'm sure many would look at it as a betrayal if a brand they loved started churning out crap just to make a buck. I know I would.

 

[Squirrel]

Illya - Your comments about shimming are absolutely right, whilst possible it is definitely not a field operation, it needs a controlled environment where you can set up a siemens star chart at a precise distance from the focal plane and on top of that it's very fiddly and takes a lot of time... I didn't have to do it and would not want to. Having the ability to adjust flange-back on the mount is far better and crucial for rental houses or those who want to hire in PL mount lenses!

 

[Barry_Green]

+1 to everything Illya just said.