Picture Styles for Canon XF cameras?

B

benlen

Member
Hey folks,

I've recently been hired for a DP job where I'll be working with a Canon XF100. I've done a lot of google searches on Custom Pictures Styles (the camera allows this) but can't find anything that will produce a good "flat" image for grading.

I'm not super familiar with the XF line. Does anyone have any advice for achieving a flat look so our editor can have as much leeway in post as possible?

Thanks a bunch!

-ben
 
I don't have time for a detailed reply, but will write back later today/tonight.

The short answer is - use one of the Cine gammas, set the Knee and Black Gamma to give softer rolloffs on highs and lows, raise the Master Black, use Waveform while shooting to make sure you aren't losing highlights. If you like you can also dial back Sharpness and raise the Coring. It's much better to have to pull down the shadows in post than to raise them.

Don't use exposure Gain above +9, but keeping it to no more than +6 is better. Keep iris at 5.6 or wider, but 4 or wider is even better (small sensor has diffraction if you stop it down much).

I'll post back later with more specific numbers to try on the Knee etc. Since the camera came out in Spring 2011 there were a lot of posts about it then, not so many now. But, if you do find some CP settings files online, the ones that I found were (to me) not Flat enough for a flat look, or not punchy enough for a finished look in-camera, but you might like them.
 
A good source of information is the Vimeo XF group. Like DD says, but to me, the XF100 shoots flat enough by default and the codec gives you a lot of flexibility anyway, so basically after lots of futzing around a few years ago and getting nowhere special I no longer worry about it, just try to keep the gain below +6, dial back sharpening 1 or 2, the PAL default shutter speed is 1/25sec, usually set it to 1/50th. There's a bit of controversy about whether or not to use the auto NR, it can affect the resolution, I think it works pretty well but don't go above 4 if setting manually, if you turn it off make sure your editor has Neat Video.
Oh yeh - WB can be weird - check it and if you think it's off, your opinion probably is better than the camera's.
 
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Raise Master Pedestal as needed (depending on the shooting situation) to keep highlights under control without also losing Blacks.
For Black Gamma I use Level 29 Range 3 Point 25 - gives a softer rolloff.
A good Knee setting is Slope 10 Point 70 Saturation 2.
Dial back Sharpness some, remember that + values on Coring soften small details, thus suppressing artifacts, moire, and noise - so dial this higher to taste.
I use Automatic on noise reduction unless in high Gain situations.
Color Matrix - make sure this matches your Gamma setting (cine1, for example) or you get odd skin tones even if manually white balanced.
I keep changing my mind on saturation (Color Matrix-->Gain). I like a pretty colorful look, but I don't think it really makes a big difference whether you dial it back to between 0 and 10 and add more in post, or up it to 20-25 and add only a little in post.
I *have* found that adding too much in-camera can skew skin tones red.

Hope this helps.
 
ddixon said:
Raise Master Pedestal as needed (depending on the shooting situation) to keep highlights under control without also losing Blacks.
For Black Gamma I use Level 29 Range 3 Point 25 - gives a softer rolloff.
A good Knee setting is Slope 10 Point 70 Saturation 2.
Dial back Sharpness some, remember that + values on Coring soften small details, thus suppressing artifacts, moire, and noise - so dial this higher to taste.
I use Automatic on noise reduction unless in high Gain situations.
Color Matrix - make sure this matches your Gamma setting (cine1, for example) or you get odd skin tones even if manually white balanced.
I keep changing my mind on saturation (Color Matrix-->Gain). I like a pretty colorful look, but I don't think it really makes a big difference whether you dial it back to between 0 and 10 and add more in post, or up it to 20-25 and add only a little in post.
I *have* found that adding too much in-camera can skew skin tones red.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...


Wow ddixon, that's a great breakdown! I'm just coming to the camera myself, so is the above all what you can do in camera? I'm assuming there's a spot where you can edit all this stuff, I'm just mostly ignorant of the XF series (coming from shooting primarily with DSLRS/mirrorless cameras).

-ben
 
Also, ddixon, you mentioned that you should try not to allow the camera to go above +9db in gain...unfortunately the client I'm working for wants me to film with this camera for a presentation (their DSLRS don't film beyond 12 minutes continuously, otherwise I'd use those for their larger sensors). It will be in a room with available light. Will the footage look terrible if the gain has to go above +9db?
 
Ben - yes, everything I'm listing is included (along with a LOT more) in the Custom Picture file settings in-camera. Although this little cam is now almost 4 years old, it's always IMO been a bit underrated. It has full picture controls, waveform monitor, good stabilization, good audio, great zoom controls, 4:2:2 color, etc.

For me the only drawbacks are that it only has a 10x zoom (they limited this to get the small size), is only average in low light, is difficult to get shallow depth of field from (due to the small chip), and is not as sharp as many newer cameras due to improved sensor tech. I'm currently seriously considering getting a Sony X70 because it's a bit better in all these areas and adds more things that I want, but I will still be using my XF100 for a long time to come.
 
Ben, above +9 it's going to be fairly noisy. I've never had to use that except on family stuff where it didn't matter a lot. You might have to use Neat Video or something if the room is really dark. If it's during the day and there are windows, you may be surprised at what it can do, especially if you manually keep the iris wide open. If it's a Powerpoint/Keynote presentation on a screen kind of thing you'll have to as usual work out whether to expose for the speaker or the screen. And white balance is always tricky in these settings.
 
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