Photography at School (rant)

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Everyone is missing the most important point!! This incident could have gone on Drew's PERMANENT RECORD.

:)

Drew, You've obviously got a good head on your shoulders. Just keep doing what you think is right and let others adapt to you. Life gets better (although more complicated) after High School.
 
Doc, it is very true that the Constitution is interpreted differently now than it was 200 years ago but it is still considered the supreme law of the land. The point I was making is I, by definition, am a US citizen and thus no law can be made to take away my privileges. As far as rights, no law HAS been made to threaten those either (although "rights" are very subjective. Let's not go down that road). Thank you for point out the other side though, I do take in every point you all make.

Didn't I say I was done with this? :huh::grin:
 
Nick...

I like you. I really do. But you are grossly misinformed. Take a look at the patriot act and then tell me the constitution upholds all your rights everywhere.

Like everyone said. You're rights exist on paper. But in practically - they become privileges.

Is the airport any different then the school? Or a prison? Like I said - take a picture of a nuclear power plant (I have before 9/11 when they gave tours of them. I have photos of the cooling towers, photos of everything). Try that today and see the response you get. I can assure you 4th amendment won't get you anywhere - nor will the first.

Go to the border of groom lake and start snapping pictures. See what happens then?

Take a picture of a girl playing on the swings at a park and explain your rights to the father to take that picture.
 
Doc Bernard said:
Kubrick, to use your argument, I can go onto a Federal facility and take whatever pictures I want? I can have my backpack with no fear of being searched? I disagree. When you are at certain facilities, your "rights" are curtailed. I cannot expect to not be searched at any moment. I have been at these facilities, and if I touted the Fourth Amendment, the only result would maybe been a chuckle at my expense. Nuclear facility guards have no sense of shared humor.

So where would my 4th Amendment rights be there?
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Nice exception but I didnt pull Supreme Court cases from my butt, these are real and their opinions are standing precedent.

And dude Im not going to get into petty stuff like yeah rights are different under national security terms.....but if you research the 4th amendment decisions of the Supreme Court which I tried to point out the best starting places, you will for the most part (as federal judges don't always stick to precedent but you can then appeal to the Supreme Court) find out your rights, instead of telling this guy your opinions and such, direct him to standing law. That's it, I'm just trying to illustrate the law and not give my assumptions of the situation. Reading these decisions will also tell you where and how the probable cause concept is executable.
 
ConspiracyPenguin said:
I, by definition, am a US citizen and thus no law can be made to take away my privileges.
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Uh, really? You have had no privileges that have been taken away???? You sure about that?

Kubrick, you are claiming my argument is petty. National Security or not, your rights are not the same in every situation and you cannot expect to be protected by them every time. They can and are abridged all the time. There is no blanket coverage of the 4th Amendment. To assume otherwise would be foolish and naive. You yourself just said Federal judges don't always stick to precedent, wait, but you said the 4th Amendment is the law. Aren't Federal judges supposed to uphold the law? And the law changes all the time. An appeal is no guarantee either. This is not my "opinion", this is fact.

But let's bring this back to reality, arguing semantics and intention of the law does not negate the fact that pictures taken in a facility that forbids cameras, and of minors that cannot give permission, cannot be and is not covered under the 4th Amendment. It was a violation of privacy and the 4th Amendment does not give that right to anyone. So the Constitutional argument is moot. That person's right to privacy stands higher than his "right", or should I say privilege, to take pictures.
 
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Nick before you stated that you were an American Citizen and now you say you are a US citizen. You can't have it both ways. If you call and talk to an Assistant Attorney General they will tell you that you are not a state citizen and explain that indeed you are a US Citizen.

Good Luck and give them a call.
 
Doc, whatever bro, I never said anything about taking pictures or anything, all I'm trying to do is direct someone to constitutional law, which is the highest authority there is. Judges do what they deem correct, not what is always lawful under the constitution, thats what I was illustrating by my point on federal judges. There is always the right to appeal to the Supreme Court, especially if a federal judge overstepped precedent.

If you want to know fourth amendment rights, which relates to search and seizure and probable cause, start with the cases i tried to provide otherwise , whatev

Im not trying to argue with anyone here, theres no point of it. Laters.
 
Guys - this started as an interesting conversation about the law in regards to photography on public school grounds...
which was cool (even though somewhat political) - but let's not delve into general rights issues, please.

Now it's getting a bit too political... and a bit too heated.
 
The reality is this is another example of knee jerk reactionist getting in people's face. Where are these punks when kids are bringing guns to school to kill innocents students. Whose getting in those @$$hole's faces? Pay attention to the crazy kid that wants to blow someone head off! Is that too hard to do? But I guess camera are real dangerous now. I used to be the assistant librian in my high school. It's a easy job made easier by computers. All you do is put the books away, sit down, shut up and enjoy the fact you get first dibs on all the good books and use their equipment for whatever project you're doing. How often is there a photography student uprising in a library? Not one to my knowledge.

-Nate
 
A lot of librarian trashing going on here. They're some of the most professional and educated people you'll find at any campus from grade school to law school. People used to respect librarians, why respect them now though, after all we have things like Wikipedia and Barnes and Noble.
 
You guys are funny. There's no such thing as a Constitutional right to privacy. The closest it comes is the search/seizure bit, which is exactly what is stepped being stepped on.

Privacy? In a place where you get naked together in the locker rooms?

Where your every move is observed by everyone else?

Schools are some of the least "private" places that exist.

Other laws comes into play, of course. Still, I would have done the same...but only because of their attitude. Martinets need to be stomped on whenever they rear their heads.

Oh. One other thing. The Constitution lays out what the *Government* can and cannot do. Not what individuals can and cannot do. Those are the other laws I referred to.
 
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That isn't even funny.

The people that do that - you can't tell. Imagine being told don't come to school tomorrow by a friend. I didn't know him that well - but he told my group of friends not to come to school. He was a nice kid. Sweethearted. But he was just bullied to a point where he couldn't take it anymore. There was an intervention and things were fine. But you can't tell who those people are. You can't tell who is on a breaking point. It's the people that bully other kids that are responsible for that crap.

Nathyn said:
The reality is this is another example of knee jerk reactionist getting in people's face. Where are these punks when kids are bringing guns to school to kill innocents students. Whose getting in those @$$hole's faces? Pay attention to the crazy kid that wants to blow someone head off! Is that too hard to do?

-Nate
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brianluce said:
A lot of librarian trashing going on here. They're some of the most professional and educated people you'll find at any campus from grade school to law school. People used to respect librarians, why respect them now though, after all we have things like Wikipedia and Barnes and Noble.
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I respect librarians quite a bit, but not these particular librarians.
 
Drew Ott said:
I respect librarians quite a bit, but not these particular librarians.
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Who told you to bring your camera to school! If I was the librarian I'd crack your knuckles with a ruler and give you detention for the rest of the year! And I'd call your parents too!
 
brianluce said:
A lot of librarian trashing going on here. They're some of the most professional and educated people you'll find at any campus from grade school to law school. People used to respect librarians, why respect them now though, after all we have things like Wikipedia and Barnes and Noble.
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There is no librarian trashing going on here. I have nothing but respect for librarians (even the one who hates me because of the time I exercised my right to free speech one time). Just because we have the internet does not mean we don't need them or don't respect them. Drew was just saying his were a bit TOO diligent.

brianluce said:
Who told you to bring your camera to school! If I was the librarian I'd crack your knuckles with a ruler and give you detention for the rest of the year! And I'd call your parents too!
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:huh: Are you kidding?

---

Luis is right. I was about to say what he did when I saw his post. This was (and maybe is) getting too political which is why I said I was out. But I couldn't help myself. I feel like there is a way to discuss this issue in a civil manner without getting too heavy with rights (and things like the patriot act). You are all entitled to your opinion, but so am I (how's that for a right?) so I am respectfully withdrawing myself from this conversation because, as I just said to a member on MSN in regards to discussing topics like this on the site, "I love [politics] but I also love friends."
 
Sounds to me like the staff in your HS for some odd reason, despite the drastic situation in our school, somehow have lots of free time......
 
Thought I'd resurrect this thread 'cuz it has a good line that anyone doing an urban cop drama might consider. Paraphrasing:


SUSPECT
I know my rights.

COP
You don't know your rights as well as we know your rights.

SUSPECT
I want my lawyer.
 
Just one more reason that I homeschool haha. Dont have to deal with f@cked up policies that make dick for sense. I do get to deal with my mom and brother on a daily basis tho...
 
From a European POV Americans seam to be always with one foot in the jailhouse.

If you would have told me that the High Shool Cop (we don´t even have such thing) came in and taserd you down I would not have any doubt of the story.

So called Lawenforcement for not beeing compliant, not beeing obey enough or just taking a different standpoint and mention your rights seems to be a bit on the heavy side these days in the US.

I´m glad you stood up. You should be proud of yourself.

Frank
 
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