Phone companies lose $400 for each iPhone sold, see their stock fall

groveChuck

U-matic Member
AT&T, Sprint and Verizon, which pay hefty subsidies on the iPhones their customers buy, have seen their earnings and stock prices drop since they began offering the Apple handsets.

Turns out your carrier is actually losing money on that exorbitant iPhone contract you just signed. Apple charges carriers so much for the privilege of selling iPhones that service providers can't turn a profit. The 4S that cost you $200? AT&T paid around $600, eating $400 every time you upgrade. It's proving to be a lousy business model for phone companies, and is raising red flags on Wall Street. "Can Apple continue to roll through industry after industry, soak up all the profits, and leave everything it touches as a smoking wreckage?" one analyst asked in the Los Angeles Times. "They've done it with music and handsets, and now they're doing it to the carriers."

The iPhone has been a huge hit for Apple Inc., helping send the company's stock to all-time highs and producing record-breaking profits.
But for AT&T Inc., Sprint Nextel Corp. and Verizon Communications Inc., it's breaking the bank.
The three wireless carriers all found themselves answering to Wall Street in recent weeks for posting depressed quarterly earnings, and analysts pointed to the heavy cost of offering the iPhone as a culprit.

The iPhone has become the single most popular smartphone in the U.S., and that has left the carriers trapped in a kind of Faustian deal: The more iPhones they sell, the more money they lose.
That's because they have to buy the phone from Apple before they can sell it to their customers for hundreds of dollars less. The carriers are betting that they'll make back the difference and more by signing up customers for two-year plans and collecting monthly fees.
But so far, the carriers are finding that the math isn't adding up.
AT&T was the first carrier to offer the iPhone and has been struggling to make it profitable for years. During the last quarter, the iPhone accounted for 82% of the smartphones AT&T sold to its customers, meaning the company had to pay the hefty subsidy on each of the 7.6 million iPhones. All that money paid to Apple tugged down the company's profits. AT&T's operating margins — a common measure of how much a firm makes — dropped to 15.2% from 22.9% a year earlier.

"The AT&T wireless model is broken," said Kevin Smithen, a wireless analyst at Macquarie Securities. "AT&T is basically subsidizing Apple's revenues and profit growth."

Investors have taken notice: Since June 29, 2007, the day AT&T first offered the iPhone, Apple's stock has shot up more than 300%, to $493.69 from $122.04. Meanwhile, AT&T's stock has dropped 28%, to $29.82 from $41.40.
Sprint's stock is down more than 16% since it began selling the iPhone late last year. It sold 1.8 million iPhones last quarter, spending $630 million to buy them from Apple. That was a large contributor to the company's $1.3-billion quarterly loss — a 40% wider loss than the struggling company saw a year earlier, before it offered the iPhone.
Verizon sold 4.2 million iPhones last quarter, accounting for more than half of the smartphones it sold. But despite those strong sales numbers, Verizon's profit failed to meet Wall Street's expectations, and the firm's stock dropped 2% after its earnings release.
Wireless carriers began subsidizing the cost of cellphones years ago, in an era of simpler, less expensive "feature" phones. Carriers might have offered a $300 phone to consumers for $100.
But that doesn't work well with the much more expensive iPhone, which companies buy from Apple for about $600, analysts estimate, before reselling it to consumers for $200 — eating the $400 difference.

A particularly sticky issue for carriers is that many iPhone users don't want to wait for their two-year contract to expire to buy the latest model, which has come out once a year.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/10/business/la-fi-iphone-blues-20120211
 
a phone company getting ripped off....what is the world coming to.

i guess now they know what it feels like..........

cheers
 
That also explains why I see the old iPhone 3GS still costing $20/month on some plans here, whilst the Samsung Galaxy S II is available free on the $29 cap!

I can't say that it upsets me as they've been stiffing us long enough on trumped up charges and it's nice to see the swing go round.
 
Somehow this is only a story if Apple is involved. Just like the labor issue. It is fine for thousands of other companies to have worse conditions, but when Apple has one of the best records in this it still does not matter. It is fine for Motorola to make insane amounts of money from the piece of crap that was the Razr, it sold for $600 when new. Where is mention of the Galaxy S? Every phone company has a version of that $600 phone.
 
Well and I wonder with Sprint and AT&T how much of that has to also do with the unlimited data. AT&T was just in the news because they're "freezing out" their top 5% of users by providing them with exceptionally slow download service.

Verizon is awesome. They're a bit more expensive, but you get what you pay for. Both AT&T and Sprint have major issues that I wouldn't be able to cope with.
 
Sounds like a chance for another company to come in and out innovate Apple. Or perhaps for the providers to shake things up?

Oh, but why do that when they can just blame the biggest juggernaut in the room? While the iPhone may have legitimate impact on these provider's profits, all I'm seeing is a bunch of crying and "why can't it be the way it used to be?" It's the same thing the RIAA did 10 years ago and it's also what the MPAA is doing now. Instead of crying, evolve.

I'd just like for them to explain why on Big Red my data plan is just $30/month but texts are $40/month and voice is $50/month. Considering it's all one's and zero's anyway and that I have made maybe 10 phones calls this month but I am on my iPhone right before bed and right when I get up sucking down data all day I find their pricing structure desperately far behind the times...
 
Am I the only one out there who doesn't believe this? What happened to a reasonable amount of skepticism?

Apple will sell you an iPhone 4s (16GB, no phone plan) for $650 USD. That's full retail. ATT doesn't pay anything like that for the millions of iPhones they buy from Apple. ATT pays wholesale, probably a 50% discount. But lets play it like the article does, and say that ATT is an idiot and can only negotiate down 30%. That would be $455 for that same iPhone4s. So if they sell that phone to you for $200, all they are on the hook for is $255.

But wait, on the hook? ATT? I don't think so. My wife's ATT iPhone came with a $80/month contract (about the lowest you can get). That's $960/year, for two years. Not a contract the user can easily break either -- the early termination fee is $325, minus $10 for every month of the contract that you complete. So you can't walk out without fully paying for that phone. ATT is going to get the money back one way or the other.

Know also that ATT and all the cell carriers are making a hell of a profit on cell phone minutes. Their actual cost to supply you a cell phone minute is very low -- it's comparable to the cost of a land line minute. There are so many plans with so many conditions / restrictions that it's nearly impossible to say with any certainty, but I'm guessing they charge in general nearly 5x for cell phone usage as they are for land line usage. And the increase in sales of contracts because of the iPhone is just huge -- ATTs biggest problem right now is capacity.

I'm just sayin' that "poor, poor, pitiful ATT" just doesn't play. If they aren't making money on the iPhone, it's sheer incompetence from ATT management. You can't blame Apple for that.

This story, from the LAT no less, reads just like a press kit. It sure could use a little investigative journalism.
 
Believe it.

In their last financial report AT&T reported that just the last 3 months of 2011, they lost $6.8 Billion. Which means they are bleeding very badly.

While they may not be losing $400/phone, they are hurting in a big way.
 
Believe it.

In their last financial report AT&T reported that just the last 3 months of 2011, they lost $6.8 Billion. Which means they are bleeding very badly.

While they may not be losing $400/phone, they are hurting in a big way.

Maybe this was Steve's plan from the begining. It has been stated he wanted his own network for the iPhone. Maybe his plan was to bankrupt the big 3 and then create the amazing "It just works" Apple network.
 
Believe it.

In their last financial report AT&T reported that just the last 3 months of 2011, they lost $6.8 Billion. Which means they are bleeding very badly.

AT&T took a charge of $4.2 billion for the compensation it's paying T-Mobile USA. When AT&T made the $39 billion bid in March, it promised T-Mobile cash and wireless licenses if the deal fell through. The deal was squelched by federal regulators, who saw reason to believe that the No. 2 wireless carrier buying No. 4 would reduce competition.

iPhone is partly responsible, but the failed T Mobile acquisition costs are the real reason last quarter
 
I'd just like for them to explain why on Big Red my data plan is just $30/month but texts are $40/month and voice is $50/month. Considering it's all one's and zero's anyway and that I have made maybe 10 phones calls this month but I am on my iPhone right before bed and right when I get up sucking down data all day I find their pricing structure desperately far behind the times...

that is one of the reasons i prefer prepaid. i pay $25 for unlimited data, text, and 300 anytime minutes. but i have an lg optimus instead of an iphone.
 
Believe it.

In their last financial report AT&T reported that just the last 3 months of 2011, they lost $6.8 Billion. Which means they are bleeding very badly.

While they may not be losing $400/phone, they are hurting in a big way.

I believe that ATT is hurting. What I don't believe is that they can creditably blame it on Apple. If management can't manage (and that includes negotiating with their vendors, including Apple), it's the job of the BOD / shareholders to replace them with people who can.

ATT is a huge corporation in a monopoly position (they own the last mile just about everywhere in the USA) that has limited regulation. It lost most of the regulation in the Telecommunications Act of 1996 in exchange for splitting up into lots of smaller companies (aka "Baby Bells"). At this point in time, ATT has reaquired just about all of the Baby Bells it lost in 1996, but without the regulation.

So, just how much better position could it ever expect to be in? Unregulated market dominance is pretty good work when you can get it. Yet, it still can't make money? How incompetent must ATT managment be? I mean, really. And I used to work for Nortel, the poster child for incompetent management of a telecom company. Maybe ATT hired all the Nortel execs after they drove Nortel into the ground. Hmmm..... that could explain it. They sure didn't end up at Apple.

Nope -- no chorus of "poor, poor, pitiful ATT" from me. I'm not giving them a pass on this propaganda piece. None of us should.
 
Talk about backwards arse thinking. Heck, the big three should be charging apple, If you want your Iphone to work on OUR network, You need to pay us. I also cant understand why these big cell phone carriers dont make a phone thats better than the iphone. You say it can't happen, well... black magic ring a bell. If they can design a camera thats pretty amazing without any prior experience in cams, then a cell phone company can ceratinly design an amazing phone with features apple doen not have.

But like so many others said, it is nice to see them get a tatse of their own medicine. That is until they pass the loss onto us, the consumer. We always get the brunt of it.
 
Back
Top