Phantom 5 leak...
- Thread starter legrevedotcom
- Start date
Unless the Phantom 5 upsizes itself considerably, there is no way they're going to put a S35 interchangeable lens camera on it. You just can't cheat physics... and upsizing the sensor to that degree upsizes both the size of the camera as well as the glass. The X7's lenses are designed for S35 (if I remember correctly)... so that's what a S35 lens set would need to look like.
The Mavic Pro/Air were engineering problems... fitting a S35 sensor on an airframe the size of a Phantom is a physics problem.
dustylense
Veteran
Thats not what I'm saying. What I'm pointing out is that DJI has continually made some crazy ideas a reality. 5 or 7 years ago, I bet that if I said DJI will make a 4k capturing camera on a drone that fits in a cargo pocket of your shorts, I bet you your answer would be quite similar to the one above.
rob norton
Veteran
I wasn't talking from an achievement standpoint, I meant from a sales perspective.
No... it wouldn't have. Because like I said before, that's an engineering problem. We can put a tiny sensored 4K camera into an iPhone that fits in my front jeans pocket, so getting a 4K camera on a cargo-pocket-sized drone isn't a huge deal. It's an engineering problem... downsize battery and motor tech and you're there because the optics already exist at an even smaller scale.
However, barring something crazy, lenses for a S35 sensor (and the S35 sensor itself) have to be a certain size to perform well. The lenses for the X7 are literally stripped down to the bare essentials you need for quality glass on S35... so it will take some kind of optical breakthrough (or serious optical compromises that would render that S35 sensor no better than the 1" that was already on there) to downsize S35 glass to a size that'd be carry-able on a Phantom-sized drone. That's not an engineering problem (because you really can't downsize the S35 sensor and can only do so much with the optics)... it's a physics problem. You have to change the game optically to overcome that... and I highly doubt DJI will be the ones to have that kind fo breakthrough in optics (anytime soon, anyway).
I'm also not really sure why the S35 sensor on a drone is some kind of panacea for people. The X7 (S35) really offers very little in actual image quality increase over the X5S (m43). Once you correct for the fact that the X7's dedicated lenses are anywhere from 1-2 stops slower than their equivalents for the m43 mount the difference in low light capability is less than a stop. The dynamic range figures are also very close if I remember correctly. The effective depth of field is actually either dead even (for most m43 glass) or in favor of the X5S (with the Olympus 45mm).
markoconnell
Well-known member
"I also think it would be cool if they added motorized polarizer filter rotation."
Great suggestion.
Great suggestion.
There have been some very small compact cameras with an APS-C sensor.
So while I don't think it is totally crazy impossible that DJI will stick an APS-C sensor in a future Phantom, I do feel it is VERY unlikely it will be in their next Phantom. Their next couple of Phantoms will most certainly have a 1" sensor (or maaaaaaaaaybe 4/3").
So while I don't think it is totally crazy impossible that DJI will stick an APS-C sensor in a future Phantom, I do feel it is VERY unlikely it will be in their next Phantom. Their next couple of Phantoms will most certainly have a 1" sensor (or maaaaaaaaaybe 4/3").
legrevedotcom
Veteran
http://thenewcamera.com/dji-phantom-5-images-leaked/
Apparently DJI actually responded to the leak of those images... they went ahead and said that it was a custom build for specific clients. So... they don't affirm the possibility of interchangeable lenses on a Phantom drone, in fact, it's pretty much like confirming it, yet keeping it away from pro-sumer hands until they are ready to actually disclose it. I think by "specific clients" they must mean test pilots, and this in fact what is to come.
Another article speculated that it looks like a 1" sensor, so we'll have to wait and see what they have conjured up in terms of lenses... remember Hasselblad is in their portfolio now.
Apparently DJI actually responded to the leak of those images... they went ahead and said that it was a custom build for specific clients. So... they don't affirm the possibility of interchangeable lenses on a Phantom drone, in fact, it's pretty much like confirming it, yet keeping it away from pro-sumer hands until they are ready to actually disclose it. I think by "specific clients" they must mean test pilots, and this in fact what is to come.
Another article speculated that it looks like a 1" sensor, so we'll have to wait and see what they have conjured up in terms of lenses... remember Hasselblad is in their portfolio now.
Find me something even remotely close in size and weight to the Phantom 4 Pro’s camera with a Super35 sensor.
Heck, find me a S35 camera that’s around the same size as a X5 for the Inspire. They simply don’t exist at that size and weight... and that takes an INSPIRE to get off the ground. Unless the Phantom grows up to 13-15” props it’s not going to easily lift an X5-sized camera... and that’s m43.
Also, the 1” sensor size in the P4Pro is considerably smaller than a 4/3 sensor... so upsizing to m43 in the Phantom line is also unlikely.
rob norton
Veteran
What about the x7?
The X7 is almost 30% heavier than the X5S before you factor in lenses. The DL lenses are about 55% heavier than the DJI 15mm lens that comes with the X5S in the kit. So that whole package is over 35% heavier than the X5S.
And remember... the X7/X5S are carried on the Inspire 2. A drone that uses 15" props and dual 4280mAh batteries to fly.
The X7 is also near the limit for a gimbal-mounted S35 camera. They stripped it down to the bare minimum and even made their own line of carbon fiber lenses (that lack all external controls to save weight) to get it done.
So, you're telling me there's any chance at all they get the X7 (or even X5S) downsized far enough to fit on a PHANTOM? The Phantom's camera is an order of magnitude smaller than even the X5S. The airframe would have to be upsized considerably (probably to Inspire 2 range) to be able to carry a m43 or S35 sensor camera with any kind of usable battery life.
This isn't even taking into account the business side. They'd never cannibalize their Inspire 2/X7 package with a Phantom... especially less than a year since they started shipping the X7.
bgundu
Veteran
Here's what I've heard.
No new drones at NAB. Phantom series will never have interchangeable lenses or have RAW. They don't want to cut into Inspire sales. X5 X7 lenses were co developed with Hasselblad but manufactured in Japan. X7 Osmo will be released soon. The X5R is essentially the GH4 sensor.
No new drones at NAB. Phantom series will never have interchangeable lenses or have RAW. They don't want to cut into Inspire sales. X5 X7 lenses were co developed with Hasselblad but manufactured in Japan. X7 Osmo will be released soon. The X5R is essentially the GH4 sensor.
rob norton
Veteran
Haha no, I was just wondering how you thought about its size relative to the others. Yeah I think the x7 is safe for a while.
rob norton
Veteran
Do you think it should be closer to a ronin-looking device than an osmo? If the gimbal is powerful and easy to use in the field, a total x7 system that can also fly will actually be a game changer for small production work. I don't think I've called anything a game changer!
People have been talking about the Osmo handle for the X5S/X7 since the Inspire 2 was released... but the problem with it is twofold:
1. It's going to have to include the CineCore processor that currently resides in the Inspire 2 (the X5/X5R had the image processing pipeline in the camera itself). So, it's not just a dumb handle/power supply for the camera like the original Osmo.
2. It's going to require (or include I guess) another set of ProRes/CinemaDNG licenses for the handle itself since those are tied to the drone and not the camera.
Both of these mean that if it ever DOES happen, it's going to be very very pricey in all actuality.
1. It's going to have to include the CineCore processor that currently resides in the Inspire 2 (the X5/X5R had the image processing pipeline in the camera itself). So, it's not just a dumb handle/power supply for the camera like the original Osmo.
2. It's going to require (or include I guess) another set of ProRes/CinemaDNG licenses for the handle itself since those are tied to the drone and not the camera.
Both of these mean that if it ever DOES happen, it's going to be very very pricey in all actuality.
rob norton
Veteran
To each their own. I think the x7 looks amazing. I haven't been blown away by x5 footage but was floored when I saw x7 videos.
Maybe they could make it so you wouldn't need to pay for another license as an inspire2/x7 owner?
I've mentioned this in a different thread but so apologies if you've heard the rant before.
In the smaller commercial space with crews sized 1-3, lets say you don't own any equipment yet. The system would let you:
- redirect $2-5K you'd invest in a fluid head tripod. You can just a low boy combo or any other stand because you're getting super smooth pans/tilts from the gimbal.
- not need a jib*
- not need a dolly/slider*
Of course the gimbal/drone can't completely copy dolly/jib moves but close enough will become good enough in the name of speed. Or you could add it to a dana dolly for a complete moco rig. Again, this is not single operator stuff, you still need a second set of hands. But two guys with backpacks means you can push around more lighting equipment too.
This is taking sound out of the equation, where on a lot of corporate/commercial/smaller shoots the formula is shoot in the field without sound, record interview, add music, call it a day. I'm not talking about what makes a good quality video either, this is about what can make money as a service you're delivering. So while you're right it isn't cheap, if the alternative is to price out a traditional small production set up, it begins to be comparable.
The X5 and the X5S are vastly different cameras. I’d never compare ProRes or CDNG out of an X5S or X7 with the X5 or even the X5R. CineCore was a pretty big step up. Look at the specs... the X7 offers about a stop to stop and a half more DR and about two stops better low light (which is then mostly eaten back up because the DL lenses are all a stop to a stop and a half SLOWER than the m43 stuff for the X5S.
Also, this is DJI... they had no reason to charge for the Inspire 2 licenses... except to make more money. I’d be floored if the Osmo handle doesn’t require licensing (or have it included at a sky high price).
I also think you’re vastly overestimating the image quality of the X7. I’d take nearly any decent full size camera over DJI gear if I could. Their image processing is still worlds away from even prosumer gear from Canon and Sony (or Blackmagic, etc.). Look at what DJI cameras do to green foliage for a good example. Their gear is great for drone stuff, but on the ground I’d never choose their stuff if I had a choice.
The Osmo is a great camera for a quick setup gimbal shot... but do you really think DPs are going to be happy with four f/2.8 lenses without focus rings as their entire lens selection?
I’ve heard the whole “drone and Osmo are going to replace traditional camera” thing since at least the original X5. It was hogwash then, it’s hogwash now.
Also, this is DJI... they had no reason to charge for the Inspire 2 licenses... except to make more money. I’d be floored if the Osmo handle doesn’t require licensing (or have it included at a sky high price).
I also think you’re vastly overestimating the image quality of the X7. I’d take nearly any decent full size camera over DJI gear if I could. Their image processing is still worlds away from even prosumer gear from Canon and Sony (or Blackmagic, etc.). Look at what DJI cameras do to green foliage for a good example. Their gear is great for drone stuff, but on the ground I’d never choose their stuff if I had a choice.
The Osmo is a great camera for a quick setup gimbal shot... but do you really think DPs are going to be happy with four f/2.8 lenses without focus rings as their entire lens selection?
I’ve heard the whole “drone and Osmo are going to replace traditional camera” thing since at least the original X5. It was hogwash then, it’s hogwash now.
rob norton
Veteran
I'm not disagreeing with your image quality points.
I'm talking about shoots smaller than ones where a DP even has the chance to be unhappy. Your "shooter" plus assistant will be able to do way more damage than before - This looks pretty good to me.
I think the dedicated "drone person" is going to be replaced with "DJI camera X system owner". Which means when you hire them it'll be under the assumption you also have the choice to use them for stuff on the ground.
The decision makers on shoots of a certain size will begin to see it as an all inclusive package. Things like not paying for your 30 ft crane, or dolly set up, nor needing the space/crew members may have a far greater pull than image quality.
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