Perya (Town Fair) - a Canon 7D Short

Jean Dantes said:
I just presented the very objective fact that digital will never be film (and vica versa) precisely becuase film is film, and digital is digital.
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No possible disagreement, because it's just a cold, hard, objective fact. In other words, to disagree would be to deny reality.

But you also said that digital can never possibly look exactly, indistinguishably like film. And that was the problem.
 
Cranky said:
1) Can digital represent real life better than film? -- yes, it can, given that sampling rate and quantization range are high enough.
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I see where you're coming from Cranky, and I don't wanna get to abstract here, but I don't wanna see "real life" when I watch a film. I want escapism. That's why the dreaded home-video-look is so hated - because it looks like "real life". Hell, that's why most of us want the Canon 7D - cause it takes us one step futher away from the dreaded "real life" home-video-look.

Film has a dream like fluid motion and depth to it. That's part of it's visual magic - it doesn't look like "real life" - it's more like a dream.

Cranky said:
2) Can digital emulate film? -- yes, it can, given that sampling rate and quantization range are high enough, and that appropriate transfer functions are used to emulate film stock.
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Key word here, "emulate". Digital can emulate film (not completely yet, but probably in the next decade or so). However, it will never look like film completely because it's not film, nor ever will be.
 
Jean Dantes said:
I gonna reiterate this one last time – I never said one format was superior to the other, all I said was that digital won’t look like film because digital is not film. I’m sure digital will someday replicate the look of 35mm film (we are already seeing very close results), however, no matter how close it comes, it will never be film because it is not film. How much more objective can I make my point?
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OK, but this is so basic as to be trite. If you can't subjectively tell the difference - and you agree we are getting close to this - then what does it matter? We're getting into really ontological arguments here - what you say is objectively true, but it's akin to arguing that because two billiard balls are composed of different atoms, they cannot be identical but are in fact completely different.

I mean, what's important here is the information stored in the film, which creates the illusion of a moving image when we move it past a projector light at a certain speed. I have a roll of 35mm movie sitting right here on my desk, but I don't appreciate it as a flat cylinder or even as a perforated ribbon, except in the most abstract sense. It only has meaning because of what I will see if I mount it in a projector.
 
Hey Jean I wasn't attacking what you said man. I just wanted to weigh in with my experience and share my opinion based on that.
In the end we are just a small group of like minded individuals exchanging ideas :)

Ultimately, it doesn't matter if "Digital" will ever look/emulate/replicate "Film" because ultimately it will completely replace it and people will prefer it for it's strenghts or not give a damn cause they wont remember the last time they saw something on film is all I ment. How long that will take? I have no clue.

You think they had fights over Papyrus and Cuneiform like this? LOL
 
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Digital will never be film? To that I say, thank god. It's going to be so much better. I've spent 20+ years in the darkroom. There's nothing about it that I'll really miss. The IQ is there now, and the process is now a majical pleasure compared to the drudgery of film. It also has almost zero impact on our enviroment compared to film. I do feel sorry for the coming generation that won't develop the discipline that film requires from exposure through to the print. That part is kinda sad.

If you could ship a hundred 7D/5DII's back in time 70 years, I doubt there would be any director that would choose film over the 7D they would be drooling over.

By the way Kholi, the wife put's morning star crumbles (soy) in the spagetti sauce. I can't tell the difference.
 
f64manray said:
Digital will never be film? To that I say, thank god. It's going to be so much better. I've spent 20+ years in the darkroom. There's nothing about it that I'll really miss. The IQ is there now, and the process is now a majical pleasure compared to the drudgery of film. It also has almost zero impact on our enviroment compared to film. I do feel sorry for the coming generation that won't develop the discipline that film requires from exposure through to the print. That part is kinda sad.

If you could ship a hundred 7D/5DII's back in time 70 years, I doubt there would be any director that would choose film over the 7D they would be drooling over.

By the way Kholi, the wife put's morning star crumbles (soy) in the spagetti sauce. I can't tell the difference.
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I can sure as hell tell. Cardboard and animal fat have distinctly different tastes.

Anyway, best bet is to get to a place where this is a full blown career for you and you can shoot whatever you want. My goal is to be a gear whore for the rest of my life and I plan on accomplishing it by using my obsession to sustain a lifestyle that permits me to be involved in the industry, at the forefront of technology and with plenty of personal time to spare creating properties that may have a chance at selling to a mass audience so that I can be self employes.

Nowhere in that goal does itnsat which camera or format I have to do it with thankfully so I'll choose which best fits. Which right now is RED.

Choose your weapon and get a decent script!

Sent from my iPhone
 
this thread has gone hellla off topic... snore.. This debate has gone on too long on too many threads.
 
Johnny Cola said:
Haha Morning star rocks!! Their breakfast sausge is the BOMB!!! Let's thread jack this thread jacking! :)
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Morning Star pork riblets? ...Delicious! Once barbecue sauce is introduced to the equation, It doesn't make any difference, it's all candy after that. Set the little piggies free I say!


Back on topic. Film will never be meat! ...or what ever this thread is about. :-)
 
LOL

Film will NEVER, EVER be meat!
Soy on the other hand just might be the future of "filmlook" You can do ANYTHING with Tofu!

(I'm an omnivore btw, but I'd be vegan as long as it tastes good)
 
Kholi said:
My goal is to be a gear whore for the rest of my life and I plan on accomplishing it by using my obsession to sustain a lifestyle that permits me to be involved in the industry
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:cry:...promised my self I wouldn't cry... but... that's just so
BEAUTIFUL! :crybaby:

EDIT: I guess I'm more of a gear slut, but I am an aspiring gear whore... someday :)
 
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Kholi said:
Anyway, best bet is to get to a place where this is a full blown career for you and you can shoot whatever you want.
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Exactly. Despite my ardent defense of digital cinematography and its future possibilities, and until digital becomes good enough to completely replace film in terms of image quality, I will gladly use film for a movie that I direct, if image quality is a top priority and if I can employ people to work with the film so that I don't have to mess with it all myself.
 
Okay, I realize I'm WAY late in this thread, but I thought this was an interesting twist on the whole "organic/digital" debate.

Check it - Building Circuits Using DNA

This is a Science Friday (NPR) segment about how some folks are trying to build computer memory out of DNA. Kinda off-topic, but crazy interesting in terms of what the future will bring.

Peace.
 
Johnny Cola said:
Hey Jean I wasn't attacking what you said man. I just wanted to weigh in with my experience and share my opinion based on that.
In the end we are just a small group of like minded individuals exchanging ideas :)

Ultimately, it doesn't matter if "Digital" will ever look/emulate/replicate "Film" because ultimately it will completely replace it and people will prefer it for it's strenghts or not give a damn cause they wont remember the last time they saw something on film is all I ment. How long that will take? I have no clue.

You think they had fights over Papyrus and Cuneiform like this? LOL
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For sure man, totally agree :beer:. Shoot on what you can get your hands on/afford.

Story is king.

And you know what man, I reckon they did debate Papyrus and Cuneiform - it's human nature hehe :)

I'll say one thing though. If I was employed by a big budget studio to make a film tomorrow (even something as graphically intensive as "The Matrix"), I couldn't help but shoot it on 35mm. I had the chance to shoot with 35mm once, in 2005, and holy crap it looked good - there was something so damn glorious about it. It had this very organic, natural, yet dreamlike vibe to it. I reckon most of us would shoot 35mm if we were offered the chance/could comfortably afford it.

Anyways, let's get back to the Canon 7D and how amazing this little bastard is gonna be for us all! :beer:
 
Kholi said:
Choose your weapon and get a decent script!
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Preaching to the choir man, hehe :beer:

P.S. I know this is off topic, but remember that GH1 video you made Kholi? The one you filmed in the Thrifty store (is Thrifity a shop in the US by the way?)?

What was it like using the Zeiss 50mm f1.4 with 2x crop factor?

Did you use the Zeiss 28mm-70mm much?

I wanna put a Canon EF 50mm f1.4 on the Canon 7D, but I'm worried how it's gonna perform when it becomes 80mm due to 1.6x crop factor...
 
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