People ragging on the 7D/any CMOS cam seem to be FULL OF IT

Just playing devil's advocate here, but if your end product is just going to be shown on TV (commercials, etc.), why does it matter when the aliasing is introduced?
Because it'll never get better, it'll only get worse. So if you're operating on the premise of "garbage in, garbage out" you have to expand that to include the broadcast chain's decimation, so it's more a case of "Beautiful in, mediocre out. Mediocre in, dog poop out." So if you're starting with a pre-aliased mess, then the final outcome would be "pre-aliased mess in, massive disaster out".
The BBC looked at the zone plate from the 5D and decided it wasn't even worth evaluating the camera any further, as just from those results alone it was ruled out as being worthy of broadcasting. But the BBC has also said (using the same methodology) that XDCAM-EX is not "HD", and neither is Super16 film. They demand a certain fidelity of signal at the start of the imaging chain, in order to have enough left over at the end that it still looks good enough and worthy of BBC standards.

But I still think a DVX is plenty fine if your targeted distribution is standard-def DVD.

So you have to decide what your standards are, what your target market is, and what your tolerance level is for having video that's potentially problematical along the way. If you're making indie films for distribution on vimeo, I think all the rules are out the window and there's absolutely nothing wrong with shooting on a Flip HD, an HV20, or a 7D or whatever you want. But if it's for broadcast, or for stock footage sale, then it makes a huge difference as to whether your footage is inherently compromised or not.

99.99999% of the viewers wouldn't notice the difference between a 7D and a Red on their HDTV in normal shooting conditions.
And, frankly, that depends on your assessment of your target market and what you want to provide to them. I would say it's a fair guess that a good half the market can't tell when 4:3 footage is being stretched out horizontally to 16:9. I actually think the number is probably much higher than half, but I've observed enough people who are watching distorted 4:3 on their HDTVs *and don't seem to even know it* that I'm pretty confident in saying that people don't care when their image is stretched out by 33%.

So the next thing I have to ask is -- if that's the standard you are thinking of catering to, then why does it really matter what you shot on? It is completely true that the general public doesn't seem to notice aliasing and moire and compression mud and stuff like that. We've been trained to accept fuzzy analog television reception! :)

I think you always do yourself a favor when you preserve the highest possible quality in your content creation. If it's going to be compromised down the chain by factors that are out of your control, well, there's not much you can do about that...
 
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Can't tell or do not care?

Can't tell. I was with my family over Thanksgiving and the signal on tv was stretched. No one cared. I noticed but I've learned to ignore the little things and DVXuser voices in my head. :beer:
 
Also when i was watching 2.4:1 movie on 16:9 TV then my dad wanted me to stretch it to 16:9 because it was better for him like that.I have similar situation when watching 2,4:1 on 4:3 old TV ,its too "cropped" when in reality is wide,not cropped,i guess it must fill the whole screen then its OK for most peoples,and i understand this point of view, 2,4:1 on 4:3 TV is distracting a little bit.
 
Wasn’t it James Cameron who suggested that resolution is overrated and that he would prefer shooting at a higher frame rate (48fps to deliver at 24p)? Maybe he’s rigtht.
 
but 48 thats more smooth than 30p its almost 25 interlaced (25 half frames - fields = 50), would look like shi* and home video, i doubt that cameron acutally was serious or tried that.
Well you have 50p in 7d is it great filmic ? Close to 48p.
 
Nope. He wants 48p mainly due to the increased detail it captures for better keying. He stated (and I’m only paraphrasing) that after working in this 48p environment the end result would be delivered in 24p. 48p is ideal because in goes into 24p evenly (that’s why he said 60p is out of the question). When I think about that statement it all makes sense. I watch 30p vs 24p from the same cameras and 30p has more detail in the image making me think it’s actually sharper. 48p would be even more detailed. Since 48p is twice that of 24p….it will convert to 24p much better than 30p or 60p.

EDIT: Thanks ydgmdlu....here's the part I was thinking about:

Because people have been asking the wrong question for years. They have been so focused on resolution, and counting pixels and lines, that they have forgotten about frame rate. Perceived resolution = pixels x replacement rate. A 2K image at 48 frames per second looks as sharp as a 4K image at 24 frames per second ... with one fundamental difference: the 4K/24 image will judder miserably during a panning shot, and the 2K/48 won't. Higher pixel counts only preserve motion artifacts like strobing with greater fidelity. They don't solve them at all.

Edit 2: Also this..

The 48 fps negative or digital master can be skip-printed to generate a 24 fps 35mm DI negative for making release prints, so 48 is the magic number because it remains compatible with the film-based platform which will still be with us for some time, especially internationally. 30 and 60 fps are out for that reason. Anyway the benefit of 30 is not great enough to be worth the effort, especially when 48 is so easy to achieve. SMPTE tests done about 15 years ago showed that above 48 frames the returns diminish dramatically, and 60 fps is overkill. So 48 is the magic number.
Of course, the ideal format is 3-D/2K/48 fps projection. I'd love to have done "Avatar" at 48 frames. But I have to fight these battles one at a time. I'm just happy people are waking up to 3-D.
 
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I dont have any problem with blur in 23.976 and 180 degree shutter, i dont want to see all frames super crispy.
I dont see how it would work,just change shutter speed for less blur.If cameron films will start to look like 50p then i commit suicide seriously.
How you would want to convert to 24p ? remove frames and leave stuttery motion ? OR bluring 2 frames together to achieve one frame ? It will add even more blur than native 24p.
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About 3D... it fails in many shots , fails on crane shots miserably,its cool as a gimmick but distracting to watch sometimes.
Besides it doesnt look that 3D , it looks like layered 2D ,like if some parts of the picture were cut out from paper and put one after another.
 
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More frames during moronic left-right pans = more things visible ,like if they were most important takes in motion pictures.
 
yeah ,just imagine terminator 9 by cameron looking like my holiday video from 10 years ago.Amazing progress in cinema WOW 48p.I just think that cameron digs too much for new technology,his super 3D realistic avatar isnt as realistic as promised,im afraid about his "new ways".
Trailer for assassins creed 2 (video game)looks more realistic than avatar trailers(which look like dreamworks cartoons).
 
More frames during moronic left-right pans = more things visible ,like if they were most important takes in motion pictures.

Agreed, but Cameron was saying he would still print out at 24p, which means the viewer still only sees 24 frames in that whip pan, not 48. So why would it be any different? It's not like you can do some process on the footage to incorporate two frames worth of detail into one, since the frames are slightly different.
 
Trailer for assassins creed 2 (video game)looks more realistic than avatar trailers(which look like dreamworks cartoons).

Haha yes agreed!

Anyone else noticed how video games are getting more movie-like while movies are getting more video-game like...?
 
I do and its scary.But great for video games.(wondering why games arent in 24p and with proper shutter speed)
 
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