Pc transfer/ mac edit?

D

dop16mm

Well-known member
As I understand it from the white papers and so on the p2 data stream is a propriety format that contains the video compression algorithms as well as metadata for frame rate flags and so on. FCP users will have to upgrade to version 5 to use in the native format. 4.5 can edit dvcpro hd, captured over firewire. That asside, If we want an on set transfer workstation, of laptop and external hard drive, piece of mind of being able to see that an appropriately sized file has been written, and even view on the screen, would it be possible to do so on a readily available windows laptop, then later do actual editing on mac desktop?

If someone would write a simple (cheap) viewer program that will handle all resolutions and frame rates this would make an affordable video assist, dailies viewer, transfer station. Can quicktime already do it?

Also if the camera could read from the hdd via usb 2, and output via firewire at the same time, select takes could be taken into the edit system the old fashioned way. This could solve any problems that might crop up with the pc formated drive, which would go up on a shelf like a master tape.

Most users would probably upgrade to fcp 5 by the time the camera is out, but there are always hold-outs that resist change, don't need new features, etc. Something like this would allow onset back-up to hd, a must, and still allow firewire capture to legacy editors.

Any thoughts?
 
The whitepaper doesn't have many actual technical details, but I think the files on the P2 drive will be directly accessible -- that is, the filesystem used by the P2 cards will be directly readable from the host PC. They're just going to be files, as far as the computers are concerned.

They even mention using iPods (!) to offload data from the PC for transportation. Either way, it's a bit too early to tell for sure.
 
Mr. Blonde said:
Once again, haha thorton, damn you and your mac! lol jk.
Click to expand...
Blonde, you always laugh far too early. You have to find a way to get the content of a P2 card onto your laptop. I pop a P2 into my Powerbook's cardbus slot and it instantly shows up on my desktop for copying onto the internal HD or editing. Don't need a separate software to see that content.

Haha, Blonde.
 
With the latest release of Avid Xpress Pro, you can edit directly off thhe P2 card if you want.

Michael
 
I just finished shooting a commercial using the SPX-800 P2 variant of the SDX-900 to give the P2 workflow a spin. Indeed, there is no mac compatibility for P2 as of last weekend. Doug, the Panasonic rep that helped us out assured me the drivers were days or weeks away. As it was, we shot on 9 P2 cards in DVCPro50 and used a PC laptop to do a backup transfer to Firewire Hard drive using the Panasonic viewer to confirm file integrity. Then we digitized from the P2 via firewire into my Mac laptop for editing on FCP 4.5. We also did a live digitize (capture now) for our in studio / green screen elements. All of the above worked exceedingly well although my 2nd AC had a hell of a time tracking file names and such. We are going to have to start thinking of the 2nd AC / loader position as being more of an editor's apprentice rather than as an entry into the camera dept.

We are editing the material now and I must say it all looks great. I've only found one small artifact in the entire batch. Shooting with a completely silent camera is a little unusual in the beginning but I learned to love it since I like to steel moments between takes. Now the performers have no hint at all that I am rolling on them (and yes I do warn them at the beginning of the shoot that I might grab shots when they don't expect it)

I'll post more on my P2 experiences if it is of interest to anyone on the list.

Thanks,
David C. Smith
LA / OC D.P.
www.filmstox.com
 
Sure, it was a small blemish at frames edge (right side, about 1/3 of the way down) about 5 pixels wide by maybe 2 pixels high on one of the green screen shots. First pixel as scanning from left to right was off color, followed by black pixels to the edge. It lasts only a single frame and it wouldn't have been noticed if not for the fact it occurred in a greenscreen shot where I've been looking at each frame very carefully. I have not had the opportunity to check the P2 clones to see if it is a camera artifact or one introduced during the firewire capture process.

I'll check into it this afternoon and post a screen capture to my website. I'm planning to write an article on the experience with the P2 workflow in a commercial (albeit low budget) environment and will post it there within the week.

-David C. Smith
LA / OC D.P.
www.filmstox.com
 
filmstox said:
I just finished shooting a commercial using the SPX-800 P2 variant of the SDX-900 to give the P2 workflow a spin. Indeed, there is no mac compatibility for P2 as of last weekend. Doug, the Panasonic rep that helped us out assured me the drivers were days or weeks away. As it was, we shot on 9 P2 cards in DVCPro50 and used a PC laptop to do a backup transfer to Firewire Hard drive using the Panasonic viewer to confirm file integrity. Then we digitized from the P2 via firewire into my Mac laptop for editing on FCP 4.5. We also did a live digitize (capture now) for our in studio / green screen elements. All of the above worked exceedingly well although my 2nd AC had a hell of a time tracking file names and such. We are going to have to start thinking of the 2nd AC / loader position as being more of an editor's apprentice rather than as an entry into the camera dept.

We are editing the material now and I must say it all looks great. I've only found one small artifact in the entire batch. Shooting with a completely silent camera is a little unusual in the beginning but I learned to love it since I like to steel moments between takes. Now the performers have no hint at all that I am rolling on them (and yes I do warn them at the beginning of the shoot that I might grab shots when they don't expect it)

I'll post more on my P2 experiences if it is of interest to anyone on the list.

Thanks,
David C. Smith
LA / OC D.P.
www.filmstox.com
Click to expand...
just wondering how you feel about the p2 workflow compared to a non-p2 workflow. my biggest fear about p2 (besides the current high prices) is that it will necessitate non-entry level assistants or even create an entirely new a position for production. new technology such as steadicam and dolly rigs have done just this in the past but isn't the point of prosumer video (like hvx200) to minimize expenses, assistants, overhead, etc. in order to maximize creativity? a simplified film vs. video argument.
 
Honestly, anyone slightly computer savy should be able to offload these cards reliably. I don't see why you couldn't entrust a P.A. level person to do that. It certainly is less complicated than loading an SR mag and I've taught PAs to do that in under 1/2 hour.
 
P2 can add complexity to the shooting workflow as compared with traditional tape; it really does benefit from a more film like approach to the process of image making, which in my opinion is a good thing. Where it is true that anyone who is even remotely computer savvy can handle the task of transferring the files (drag, drop, double check) I would assert that a PA might not take the appropriate care when it comes to camera reports, tracking cards, etc.

If you are planning to use P2 for events, news, documentary, run-and-gun situations, then I would highly recommend having more cards available to you (rental companies are already putting P2 cards on their inventory and the daily rate should be fairly inexpensive) and treating the workflow as you would tape while shooting, then transferring and clearing the cards at the end of the day. If you are in a more controlled environment (i.e. drama or commercials) and you have the staff available, treat it like film magazines and download as you go. The nice thing is that the workflow is highly adaptable to your situation.

For me, the whole question of P2 as a "prosumer" format doesn't make sense. I see P2 as a way of bringing the costs of professional production tools down to a level where more people will have access. If you look at the SDX900 vs. SPX800, they are essentially the same camera, except the 800 is substantially cheaper and I don't need to buy a deck. P2 isn't a prosumer format; it just allowed a price drop in pro technology that makes it within reach of the prosumer crowd. It still requires a professional methodology to achieve professional grade results. If you use a PA to handle transfers then don't be surprised when the wrong card gets formatted.

The hardest part of the loader's job isn't loading the mag; it's properly taking care of the paperwork.

David C. Smith
LA / OC D.P.
www.filmstox.com
 
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