Panning 'mud', reasons why and firmware update

I apologize in advance if I'm duplicating ideas that have been presented before. Tough job following this thread. I'm also talking about more controlled work versus crazy ass whip pans and crazier bus rides.

It's not 100% but I'm noticing a commonality amongst the footage that has been analyzed for this mud problem. The troubles with the panning seem to be when starting from a relatively static or near static position as if the sensor is sitting in it's 'comfort zone'. When the pans start that's when we first notice the troubles, assuming due to the VBR. It needs a little time to catch up then, but not always, it seems to improve if not too pressured. It's like trying to start driving in 2nd gear. Doable but not the best. If we look at the boat footage that Pappas provided we can see that there is already a good deal of movement in the shot and when doing the pan of the other boat there appeared to be few problems. My guess is that the bitrate was already in the upswing making a nice smooth shot. I'm sure we all thought of that. I realize it's not practical to wave our hands in front of the lens or provide dancing girls to excite the sensor before each take but is there a way to trick the sensor to increase the VBR when we want it to not when it feels like it? The Beachteck adapter apparently sends a signal to tell the AGC to 'f' off. Is there any way to induce the Gh1's sensor to a state of higher arousal in the same manner?
 
John Caballero said:
We know that there is a "mud" issue when you yank the pan, when you do a sudden start of the cam, when you whip pan and so forth. But when you pan like the boat pan, (scene full of foliage, designs all over the side of the boat on a bright day), and it looks excellent you become aware that it can be done if you know how to EXECUTE IT PROPERLY.
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How many times do we have to go through this! I mean come on...

Mud happens sometimes on shots executed properly, it would even happen if Hitchcock's ghost was operating the camera.

To say it only happens on badly shot footage and whip pans is untrue.

UNTRUE

Do you hear it?? For the 200th time on the 87th page?

It happens on slow pans as well. Granted not all - but some - and some are well shot. It's a technical issue. The GH1 isn't an art lover. It doesn't hate unartistic pans and spits them out.

Just smacks of a bit of cinesnobbery... someone who hasn't got the GH1, saying that those who do have it and complain, just aren't good shooters.

Tis really annoying.
 
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Just smacks of a bit of cinesnobbery... someone who hasn't got the GH1, saying that those who do have it and complain, just aren't good shooters.
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Now the question is: Can somebody be artistic enough to put together a sequence that doesn't require a pan. Like say a sequence involving a LS, MS and CU? Mixed together with a short track shot at MS, to a LS then back to an over the shoulder CU? Then open the next scene with a crane shot, etc., etc., etc. You think as current owner something like that would work. Or it doesn't do those either?
 
John Caballero said:
Now the question is: Can somebody be artistic enough to put together a sequence that doesn't require a pan. Like say a sequence involving a LS, MS and CU? Mixed together with a short track shot at MS, to a LS then back to an over the shoulder CU? Then open the next scene with a crane shot, etc., etc., etc. You think as current owner something like that would work. Or it doesn't do those either?
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Whilst it would be interesting to see how the GH1 performs in such environments with professional methodology, this isn't really what this thread is about.

The thread is primarily here to raise awareness that the problem is real, and that it needs a firmware fix, not an artistic workaround.

I didn't expect to have this problem when I ordered my GH1 and likewise neither did anyone else.

We paid for a fully functional 1080 24p mode and the camera hasn't delivered.

I could go on about it being great all day long (it still is) and many of us have been wowed enough by the likes of Philip Bloom's footage and Kholi's accounts of using it for Heineken shooting to place an order, but none of this solves the rather serious codec bug.
 
I could go on about it being great all day long (it still is) and many of us have been wowed enough by the likes of Philip Bloom's footage and Kholi's accounts of using it for Heineken shooting to place an order, but none of this solves the rather serious codec bug.
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Well, I thank you for your testing. Now I am aware that I can't pan with 1080p so I will have to pan with 720p just like Kholi had suggested a month ago before these 87 pages started.
 
Someone mentioned earlier their confusion over the extent of the mud problem (we're no longer debating its existence but the extent to which it makes this camera usable), and I am similarly confused. Towards the end Kholi seemed to accept the results of 1080p, while others have come to the conclusion it falls too far below acceptability.

If using the same ISO, shutter speed and aperture, I would like to know what differences there are between the creative movie mode and manual mode? What effect exactly does it have on the image when shooting video? Also, what is the difference between manual mode and custom mode (if you use a preset film mode or modify one as my film)? And of course, in my film what are the best options for those settings (last I heard: turn everything down).
 
There's a couple things that irk me about this mud thing..

1. Panasonic themselves have said this camera is for high-end users:

Q: So who is the target user for this camera, as distinct from high end camcorders - and also as distinct from the target market for the G1?
A: High end camcorder users are one of the big targets. Also video journalists and maybe broadcasting companies.
(source: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0903/09031901panasonicinterview.asp)

Yet they admit the lack of B-frames and further exacerbate the problem by not only limiting the bitrate to 17mbps but also stick the 24P into a 60i stream. Ridiculous. Seriously, who thought this was a good idea?

3. It's funny how some people here on the board are willing to completely change the way they shoot so that they can use it. That's fine, I guess, but doesn't that alone speak of a larger problem? We're coming up on 900 posts about this. There are multiple petitions, email campaigns etc. requesting a fix. What I don't get is that those who support the camera continue to make excuses for it. They too should be screaming, because the more noise we make the more chance Panasonic will fix it. EVERYONE who recognizes the problem should be emailing Panasonic. Even if they like the camera and are working around the problems for now. Get out there and shout! If we all just said "oh well" and quietly accepted and worked around the problem the chances that Pansonic would address it are virtually zero. More noise is good. Sign the petition, email, call, or write Panasonic and let them know you're unhappy. It will only increase the odds of a fix.

After having looked at Ed's footage (http://vimeo.com/5076887) and the stuff shot by Phil Bloom I'm becoming more and more convinced that the mud problem is really exclusive to the 24P@60i footage found in the American and Japanese models. I consistently see clean footage out of the 25P European models. If there wasn't such a price hit, I'd probably just order one of those and be done with it.

Getting to the supposed workaround of shooting 30P/60P for moving shots. So far my tests have been less than successful. I've worked with After Effects Timewarp, Revision's Twixtor, and Foundry's Kronos plugins. Most of the results have been bad. When there is rapid movement, these plugins get confused and fail, resulting in weirdly distorted imagery. If you're feeling bold try to convert the 60P footage of the dog catching the frisbee found here: http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/DMCGH1/DMCGH1VIDEO.HTM. I guarantee you'll be shocked at the results. If you try the drop frame approach on that footage it looks weirdly stuttery. I've also tried working with some footage shot from a train - same results. So, what I'm saying is the supposed workaround doesn't work. Yet another reason to nip at Panasonic until they fix the 24P problem.

Sorry if this comes off as preachy, it's not meant to be.
 
That infamous dog footage is done with way too short shutter speed to be re-timed without problems. I don't understand how one can shoot with a camera using interframe compression on such short shutter and then get surprised that the codec breaks. Is Imaging-Resources really a pro-site?

In fact I'm more irked from getting my eyes grated by all clips showing up with short shutter speeds causing excessive strobe motion than I am of the 'mud' flaw. Pretty please with sugar on top and cream in the bottom, learn to use Neutral Density filters folks and get that shutter running at 1/50 or 60 even when shooting outdoors in daylight.

Boz said:
T I consistently see clean footage out of the 25P European models. If there wasn't such a price hit, I'd probably just order one of those and be done with it.
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No no, get the Hong Kong PAL model, better price and no 30 minute recording limit IIRC.

(Side note: Shooting 25 for 24 is a very common practice here in Europe, especially on features with full or part financing from TV stations. Doubt there's anybody on the entire planet that can perceive the 6% slow-down and nowadays it's easier than ever keeping the sound in sync without pitch shift.)
 
As posted by Illya Friedman

FWIW, I just watched a bunch of hand held dailies from the GH1--- no mud. In fact, it looks fantastic. I think I've finally nailed the native ASA of the camera. I'll blog about it more later.
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All right!
 
COMING SOON TO A THREAD NEAR YOU:

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_____________GH1, D90, HMC150_________________________________"It's alive!"

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______DREW OTT_______________JACK DANIEL STANLEY___________LUIS CAFFESSE___________________BRANDON BOGGS

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______________"What the heck?"
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Photos: H. Cherdon Bedford
Gallery of Test Shoot (LINK)
 
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