Panning 'mud', reasons why and firmware update

Interesting post on 4/3rumors.com

I received an email from Alex which I found very interesting:
“I’ve seen on forum that the limitation to 17Mb/s compress schema is a choice from Panasonic. If you check Wikipedia, you can read that AVCHD has 2 bitstream rate 17Mb/s and 24Mb/s. The choice for the 17Mb/s rather 24Mb/s come from that the 24Mb/s has some compatibility problem with some hardware. The good news, it seem that Panasonic could update his firmware for to support the 24Mb/s, some forum related that some people from Panasonic confirm that a future firmware could be support this feature in the GH1.

Panasonic has selected AVCHD because this is a consummer format and for the compatibility you take 17Mb/s.

The problem is for the future with this codec you have a limitation to 24Mb/s and we can’t expected to see better video in GH-2 if AVCHD is the only video codec.”

I hope it is true, 17Mb/s is subject to artifacts when the image is full of detail.

Thanks Alex for sharing the news!
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http://43rumors.com/panasonic-gh1-firmware-will-upgrade-the-datarate-from-17mbs-to-24mbs/
 
I'll probably shoot in MJPEG mode anyway since I value the convenience of editability more than I value the saves space. I offload my images/video very often, so I'm not worried about the space that MJPEG takes up over AVCHD.
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So looking back through this thread and a few others, the mjpeg or even better photo jpeg does look reasonably good. Maybe that is what we should be requesting more than anything, 24/25p in p-jpeg plus 1080 if it is doable.
But if not, it seems to me I could live with the current issues, just by being careful about set up and controling light using NDs. Just gotta get my camera and stop theorising.
 
My sensibilities are more Sam Raimi/Peter Jackson than Clint Eastwood so with this camera I would always be worried about breakup when moving the camera at speed.

Hopefully they will fix it because otherwise it's perfect...
 
Based on the rumour, I don't think it's farfetched to think that maybe (just maybe) the internal settings in the GH1 already have the option to switch between 17 and 24.

Most electronic's have a backdoor to their factory settings, my sony mp3 player has a 'up down left right directional sequence' code that would allow me to access a menu not meant for consumers, but allows me to play around even further with the sound.

Maybe something like this is just waiting for us?
//enable 24M/bits AVCHD...... Yes/No?
 
With regard to finding the best settings for the best image, I'm a bit confused about shooting video in Manual or in Creative motion picture mode? Is it best to shoot video in Manual (or Custom) mode, to have more of the still camera controls available for recording video? Or is it best to keep within the available options of Creative motion picture mode which is designed for video? I've read through the PDF user manual but I don't understand what's best practice with this camera.

Anything new on the ideal ISO speed yet?
 
AdrianF said:
So looking back through this thread and a few others, the mjpeg or even better photo jpeg does look reasonably good. Maybe that is what we should be requesting more than anything, 24/25p in p-jpeg plus 1080 if it is doable.
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Exactly. Intraframe compression at a decent bitrate looks fantastic. I'm pushing for that in the petition. It would totally bypass any breakage issues from AVCHD.
 
This thread is still going? I see there are still some non-believers posting in here. Well in the voice of the Emperor of the Galactic Empire I say "Good, good. Now is the time to strike. Now is the time for our final operation."
 
AVCHD 108024p = MAX RESOLUTION: Mild jello, really bad break up in motion with AVCHD in 1080-24p.
AVCHD 72060p= ZERO (or virtually no) JELLO, decent motion at right ISO
MJPEG 72030p= GOOD MOTION, least blocking effect in motion.

Pick your mode. Shoot what you need. Confrom to 24p when necessary. Throw it all on a 1080 or 720 timeline.

Establishing shots, talking heads, anytime you want that wow it's so sharp look = 1080.
Concerned with jello or mud? = 720 60p at right ISO
REALLY concerned with mud = 720 30p Jpeg.

Don't see how you can't shoot what you want with this interchangeable lens, $1500 camera, with auto focus and face recognition in video mode, and get amazing results.

Don't see how the drama or long life of this thread is warranted. Maybe a firmware upgrade down the line will give you all of the above in 108024p, but remember the price, remember the low light capabilities compared to your HVX with a coffee can stuck on the front. Remember that motion jpeg didn't look bad even freeze framed ...

Remembe that no film festival, executive, distributor, or audience member is going to grab their remote, pause your captivating, well directed, well executed, well acted, well written, well shot scene and roll their chair up inches away from their plasma and look for mud. No one will do that except for geeks like us and we won't care if it's not noticeable when played in regular motion and if you have great content.

$1500.
Acceptible shooting mode for wow resolution.
Acceptible mode(s) for motion.
Beats the pants off any HD cam plus adapter for low light.
Small form factor.
Interchangable lenses.
A shooting mode to compensate for every weakness.
Manual control.
Auto focus in video mode.
 
And as some have expressed - one man's jello is another man's mud.
I literally picked up a D90 and instantly put it down. Just not being able to follow someone around a room or being able to cover basic blocking - at the focal length of my choice - was an immediate deal breaker.

but again here, what I don't get is, that with this full manual, jello-less, under $1500 baby is that we (or others really) have shown shooting modes where the mud is not an issue, there's still a dicsussion instead of "Oh. Cool. I can just shoot mjpeg if I'm doing some crazy panning".

And unlike having to be at certain focal lengths to control jello, dropping top 720 for motion sequences is not that big of a hindrance. I already had to drop to 720 for slo-mo with the HVX, etc. and no one has EVER said - "wow you really took a resolution drop there huh?"
 
1080 is overrated anyway. 720 is fine for film transfer and I've heard people comment that 1080 is too sharp "too video". We don't even have 1080 here, 720 is HD for broadcast. Only reason I can see an advantage to 1080 is if I want to figure out my framing in post and crop to 720. One of the reasons I haven't decided on the MKII is because it's full frame and 1080.

The mjpeg is a bit lo-fi but dropping it to 24/25p with a 25% bits per frame increase would be a big improvement. I don't see why they couldn't increase the mjpeg bit-rate to say 50Mbps because it's far less processor intensive to encode than AVCHD.
 
The samples out there with the GH1 don't compare at all with "that other camera". The GH1 looks sharp, nice colors off the camera, no in out of focus crap. No jello. This will be a camera wich you will be able to make real movies with. That mud crap means nothing. How many pans, especially whip pans anybody makes regularly? And if you pan properly nobody out there is gonna be looking for any "mud", they won't even know what "mud" means in this context. 1080 will be totally usable for many many different shots, there is absolutely no doubt about it. And like Jack said mix your shots with different resolutions and you have one heck of a camera for $1500! I am just restless with this waiting for it now.
 
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Was shooting this weekend and may have come across a fix for the mud issue, but until I get the footage on the Mac I am keeping my hopes down.

When bad mud occurs it's obvious just from watching the playback mode on camera.

But I found that shooting full HD with +2 sharpness and noise reduction OFF seemed to cure the issue or at least make it much less noticeable.

Also was impressed with 720p's total lack of jello.

Will report back later once I have access to my main computer again...
 
If 720P is jello-less, it'd be awesome if they let us shoot 24P/25P in 720P AVCHD as well as the 50P/60P offered at this resolution. Perhaps this will become an option in a future firmware upgrade?

Just wondering, does the PAL GH1 do MJPEG @ 25P?
 
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