Panning 'mud', reasons why and firmware update

Boz said:
Barry, 2nd image is asking for a password.
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Shouldn't be... try it again?

As for who would shoot crazy handheld footage? See my above post... or check about 90% of the videos on you tube. :-P
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And why don't those folks shoot on a FlipHD camera then? Or a conventional video camera? If those folks want to shoot with a GH1, I'd say they're being foolish. Why would you need shallow DOF and 1080/24p to shoot whip-pan kids and pets? Wrong tool for the job.
 
Barry_Green said:
Okay, some panning results. Remember, this is still an extreme case; I used 1/800 shutter to capture as much detail as I could and freeze it all, so that motion blur would not be an issue.

Results: under normal/rational panning conditions, it's fine. Not 100% ultimate perfect like AVC-Intra might be, but considering this frame will fly by in 1/24th of a second, it's basically fine. If you're panning to control 24p strobing, and avoiding CMOS jello, you're also going to avoid the mud. Here's a sample shot from 1/800 shutter, 100% wide angle, NR -2, as much detail as I could possibly get in the shot, and executing the fastest pan a reasonable person would do, while avoiding 24p strobing. This was a 90-degree pan in about 6 seconds:
http://www.dvxuser.com/barry/Tree Pan NR-2.jpg


Under hyper jerking of the camera, it goes to hell. But who would shoot that way? If you want to do cloverfield, this isn't the camera for you. I can make it look really, really bad... Whip the camera around like a madman (I'm talking about a 90-degree pan in less than 1 second), and you can make a shot that looks like this:
http://www.dvxuser.com/barry/Tree hyper-pan.jpg

Again, as the doctor said, if it hurts when you do that, don't do that. And if you simply must do that, this isn't the right camera for you.
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I think this sums it up and I thought it was already known to be the 17Mbps VBR causing this.
 
Barry_Green said:
If you want to do cloverfield, this isn't the camera for you.
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Only if you are making cloverfield out of still frames :laugh:

This whole thread has become extreme pixel porno - the only good think is hopefully it means more camera available for those of us who are buying.

I think this in the perfect Cloverfield camera - small, low light, looks great, tons of lens choice and cheap, cheap. Only a idiot would shoot at high shutter speeds in the low light whip the camera around, then pause the frame on the worst one possible.

Under Cloverfield shooting conditions, say a 1/40th shutter, f 1.4, this camera will render great, and I mean great shakycam footage.
 
By the way, Premiere Pro CS4.1 friggin' ROCKS for doing stuff like this. Editing straight from the card, full res, nearly realtime playback, I forgot I was supposed to be all crying about how hard it is to edit AVCHD -- heh.
 
Yeah, second image is working now, thanks.

My point was simply the it's a CONSUMER camera, and most of the people who will use it don't shoot reasonably. They're going to be whipping all over the place as the follow Timmy's birthday party full of over-sugared kids. However, that's the one area where the GH1 fails. Just seems odd to me.

Maybe someone should forward this thread to peeps over at Panasonic. :)
 
Barry_Green said:
By the way, Premiere Pro CS4.1 friggin' ROCKS for doing stuff like this. Editing straight from the card, full res, nearly realtime playback, I forgot I was supposed to be all crying about how hard it is to edit AVCHD -- heh.
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What system config and OS?

Also, have you tried Vegas 9 yet?
 
Martti Ekstrand said:
How do the same shots look with a 1/50 (or closest possible) shutter?
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I tried at 1/50; the shot's overexposed and the light's different so it's not really a fair test, but... bah. Here it is. This was in the middle of a 5-second 90-degree pan (which is about twice as fast as you'd want to actually pan 90 degrees with this field of view!)
http://www.dvxuser.com/barry/Tree-1-50-5-sec-pan.jpg

On anything like 3 second pans, it's total mud.
 
stephenvv said:
What system config and OS?
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Win XP SP3, 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo, NVidia NVS 140M discrete graphics.

Also, have you tried Vegas 9 yet?
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No, but Vegas 8 doesn't hold a candle to Premiere's AVCHD support. Don't know how 9 performs as apparently 9 breaks Raylight, so I didn't upgrade, and if Premiere keeps this up, I probably won't bother to.
 
Barry_Green said:
By the way, Premiere Pro CS4.1 friggin' ROCKS for doing stuff like this. Editing straight from the card, full res, nearly realtime playback, I forgot I was supposed to be all crying about how hard it is to edit AVCHD -- heh.
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Good to hear. I'm planning on upgrading this weekend. I can't wait!
 
I didn't for this stuff. I went through it frame by frame and selected pulldown-free frames, to make sure the images weren't being compromised in any way.

I tried dropping 1080/24p footage onto a 1080/24p timeline and telling Premiere to "interpret footage" to convert to 24p, and it looked like it was probably working but I didn't dig into it to really assess that.

I've also got Voltaic but I haven't tried it out yet.
 
Come on get real people, this is a serious problem. It doesn't just effect 'cloverfield' style insane handheld footage, I have had pretty slow pans which have corrupted badly.

I have unintentionally ruined footage, simply by shooting handheld.

I want the create option when I need it, to shoot handheld.

The GH1 does not deliver.

I want the option to have ad hoc on the fly realism, docu style, as well as 'imax' cinematic slow pans.

Quite apart from the creative side, I am annoyed that so much of my holiday footage is effected so badly by this major flaw.
 
Thanks for the tests Barry and spike

I see muddy grass in the 6 sec 1080 pan and the 720 pan. I know it's just a single frame and probably not noticeable otherwise but I just got rid of my flawed D90 hoping to get something a little less flawed.

As far as "intended use" goes well if you intend to make nice web video's then the GH1 is worthy but if you want to project 35mm I personally wouldn't risk it unless the cam is going to be stationary for 90 min.

I'm really starting to like the Pentax K-7, that 58Mbps mjpeg 720p looks really robust. No manual shutter or ISO as yet but that never stopped D90 users from making great looking films. And 24p can be done slowly in post.

The big problem is manufacturers are adopting delivery codecs for acquisition. Now that we have cheap fast storage media mjpeg should be making a comeback in a big way. 58Mbps 720-24p mjpeg is the motion equivalent to a high quality jpeg still photo which is hard to distinguish from a raw file.

I don't mean to discourage anyone and I have no doubt that people will produce good work with this cam but I personally loathe AVCHD "A Very Crappy Holder of Data".

I'd love to see some similar pan testing of the MKII.
 
commanderspike said:
Come on get real people, this is a serious problem. It doesn't just effect 'cloverfield' style insane handheld footage, I have had pretty slow pans which have corrupted badly.

I have unintentionally ruined footage, simply by shooting handheld.

I want the create option when I need it, to shoot handheld.

The GH1 does not deliver.

I want the option to have ad hoc on the fly realism, docu style, as well as 'imax' cinematic slow pans.

Quite apart from the creative side, I am annoyed that so much of my holiday footage is effected so badly by this major flaw.
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Sorry to be that guy but lets really get real: the camera costs 1500. There's no real problem at all. There are already cameras out that can do what you want. Pay for it.

Seems like few can graspthis concept. Just spend the money instead of complainng. Or wait unil the tech improves then
 
If it's for cloverfield, then no.
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This has been my sentiment from the start. Thats why I asked about doing normal pans. If you plan to do a lot of quick moving shots, up and down, left and right, like you said, then you have to get another camera that works better for you. Kholi already used it for the beer commercial and other stuff so I am sure it works for many intended uses. Now the challenge for everybody that gets it and is going to use profesionally is lets see how good can you make your footage look within the limitations.


Thank you Barry for your input.
 
squig said:
I'm really starting to like the Pentax K-7, that 58Mbps mjpeg 720p looks really robust. No manual shutter or ISO as yet but that never stopped D90 users from making great looking films. And 24p can be done slowly in post.
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LOL, so these minor compression artifacts aren't acceptable but you're ok with the major strange artifacts you get from interpolating 30p to 24p?
 
Barry_Green said:
It was set to best/full.
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My bad in that post, i didn't have my computer with me (posted on my cellphone) :).
What needs to be done to see the interlace lines in Vegas is dissable "Scale Video to fit preview window" in the monitor's properties. Also make sure that the projects properties are HD 60i. I am seeing the interlace lines right now from footage shot by the GH1 in 1080 mode (don't have the camera, I downloaded it)
 
John Caballero said:
Kholi already used it for the beer commercial and other stuff so I am sure it works for many intended uses. Now the challenge for everybody that gets it and is going to use profesionally is lets see how good can you make your footage look within the limitations.
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Couldn't agree more with this assessment but back to the commanderspike dilemma; doesn't it seem that his problems seem a bit extreme compared to what else we've seen. Commander, is there any possibility to exchange this cam at your point of purchase (provided they have one) and see if the results are the same? Granted we all know the Gh1 has it's limitations but your cam just don't seem right.
 
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