Panasonic's new AG-CX350 camcorder

Thanks. I am aware of the Verizoom models but do not agree with the choice of buttons for iris control. It really needs to be a knob to be effective imho. And yes, the Acebil has a knob but it costs $600!
 
Maybe a little bit off topic, but why not. :)

The AG-CX350 is really a good camcorder but, in my oppinion, lacks some features that I wish would be implemented in future firmwares, if there are more to come.

My whish list for future upgrades of firmware:

- Be able to assign High Sens mode to a user button.

- Set zoom and focus separate.
I would like to have zoom as numbers and focus as meters
but that is not possible as the only alternatives are, NUMBERS, mm/feet or mm/m
and this affecs both zoom and focus. On all my previous cameras this
could be set separate for zoom and focus.

- Larger WFM (Wave Form Monitor) and/or configurable size.

- WFM on after power off when WFM is selected. Now you have to turn WFM on after power off.

- Indicator on screen that zebra is selected.

- Better zebra contrast.
 
May 2021 update ver. 6. 0 (CX 350)
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This is great, but isn't available yet?

Also, for anyone wondering, I did buy the Alvin's Cables splitter, and it does seem to work. However, for me, it's only one device at a time. So you can't zoom while focusing, for example. And the only focus control I can find that would work somewhat well is really the Libec (inverted). I wish someone made a lightweight and affordable zoom/focus system for LANC (with knob for focus).
 
CX350 Firmware version 6.01 is now available for download:
https://eww.pass.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/content/download/EN/ep2main/soft/upgcx350_e.htm

This update includes support for autofocus face detection and tracking, 4K live streaming (plus H.265 streaming options using SRT or RTSP/RTP protocols), and proxy recording options for the P2 (HD) recording formats. Full release notes available here: https://eww.pass.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/content/download/EN/ep2main/soft/cx350/0601cx350.htm

And here is the updated manual for the 6.01 firmware:
https://pro-av.panasonic.net/manual/html/AG-CX350P.PJ.EN.AN.PX_AJ-UPX360ED(DVQP1830UA)_E/
 
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Thank you, important to me. I have tried the Canon R5 tracking approach with birds in flight and it is fantastic, I hope it looks something like the AG-CX350
 
Can anyone comment on color / image matching between UX180 and CX350?

We're doing multicam production (live streaming, recording) and we already own three UX180 cameras.
Now we need one additional camera.
So, I'm wondering if we buy CX350, is it going to be headache to get image similar with UX180?
 
Flopi said:
Can anyone comment on color / image matching between UX180 and CX350?

We're doing multicam production (live streaming, recording) and we already own three UX180 cameras.
So, I'm wondering if we buy CX350, is it going to be headache to get image similar with UX180?
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While the out-of-the-box look of the two cameras is not identical, I think that you should be able to get them to match reasonably well with a little effort. The CX350 in particular has fairly extensive color matrix and color correction settings that can be applied as needed.

Note that I haven't actually tried to match the two cameras specifically to each other as I didn't have both at the same time. But I did match the UX180 and CX350 with a Panasonic GH5 several times on different multi-camera shoots. So if it was possible to get both camcorders to match reasonably well with a GH5, I'd anticipate it would likely be possible to match them with each other as well.

When matching with the GH5, the stills cameras have far less in the way of color correction capabilities (at least for live output). You can mostly just set the picture profile and have some color control via custom white balance. So I mostly tried to match the camcorders with the GH5 look, since the camcorders have more customization. With the UX180, I found the best starting points to be the Still-Like scene file 4 (which was somewhat similar to the GH5 standard picture profile) or Cine-V (which was similar to the GH5 Cine-V).

On the CX350 they changed a couple of the standard scene files, so the Still-Like (scene file 4) was replaced with B. Str (short for Black Stretch) which is totally different and I think is supposed to be intended for high dynamic range scenes. And then Cine-D (scene file 6 on the UX180) which was a flatter cine scene file generally intended for grading was replaced with HLG in the CX350, since it has a true log profile for that purpose. So with the CX350, I mostly used Cine (scene file 5) which is similar to Cine-V as the starting point when matching with the GH5's Cine-V profile.

Scene files 1-3 on both the UX180 and CX350 are the same (Standard, Fluorescent, and Spark) so it's possible that these could also be reasonable starting points for matching the two camcorders. I didn't find these scene files to be a great match with any of the GH5 profiles, but on the camcorders they are probably more similar. The CX350 does have a totally different sensor from the UX180 though, and it also seems like the color science is a bit different on the newer camcorder, so I wouldn't expect a perfect match straight away.

But once you find a similar starting point look, I found the best way to dial in the look more precisely is using a vectorscope and a color chart with the 6 video primary colors (like one of the DSC Labs charts, perhaps the SMPTE OneShot being the simplest). The camera's built-in vectorscopes are really too small and not detailed enough for this purpose, so it works better with a larger vectorscope on an external monitor, such as on the Atomos, Blackmagic, or Convergent Design monitor/recorders or using the vectorscope on a broadcast monitor. Then you can usually use the color correction matrix settings on the camera to get the colors to match pretty closely.

It does take some time to do this, but once you get things the way you like them, you can save the modified scene file to a card and copy it to all of the other cameras of that type. And assuming you do the initial matching under fairly neutral lighting, then hopefully the same settings can still be used (just with appropriate white balance adjustments) under different lighting scenarios. This is the approach I took when matching with the camcorders with the GH5, it's possible when matching the two camcorders to each other, things will be closer to start with and you won't need as much tweaking.
 
Please, can anyone test the SRT streaming feature? We need to know if it is possible to stream at low bitrates (1Mbps at HEVC using SRT). We will be using 4G networks so there is no point in using high bitrates. The new firmware states that the minimum bitrate is 8Mbps, which is too much. Can anyone confirm? Thanks!
 
mitteg said:
Please, can anyone test the SRT streaming feature? We need to know if it is possible to stream at low bitrates (1Mbps at HEVC using SRT). We will be using 4G networks so there is no point in using high bitrates. The new firmware states that the minimum bitrate is 8Mbps, which is too much. Can anyone confirm? Thanks!
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I would get something like a magewell or elgato to send the video to a laptop. Then use a streaming program like OBS to set the bitrate.
 
mitteg said:
Please, can anyone test the SRT streaming feature? We need to know if it is possible to stream at low bitrates (1Mbps at HEVC using SRT). We will be using 4G networks so there is no point in using high bitrates. The new firmware states that the minimum bitrate is 8Mbps, which is too much. Can anyone confirm? Thanks!
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The H.265 (HEVC) streaming options only seem to be available when streaming in 4K (this is true for both SRT or RTSP streaming). The HD streaming options retain the same codec (H.264) and bitrate options as before the latest 6.01 firmware update. Although you now have the option to stream using the SRT protocol (in addition to RTSP and RTMP) when streaming in HD.

The way this was implemented, is that a separate Streaming 4K option was added in the Network menu, and this presents different streaming encoding options than if you select the original (HD) Streaming option. The full set of streaming codecs are listed in the table in the Streaming section of the manual:
https://pro-av.panasonic.net/manual...AJ-UPX360ED(DVQP1830UA)_E/chapter09_06_01.htm

You'll notice that only the 4K streaming resolutions have both H.264 and H.265 options as all of the HD (and below) streaming resolutions are H.264. Note also that when streaming using the SRT protocol, only 720p and higher encoding resolutions are enabled (this is indicated by a * in the table). The lower resolution (360p and below) streaming options are not available when using SRT.

Having said all that, there HD streaming settings as low as 1 Mbps for 720p25/30 or 1080p25/30 if you need them, but I believe these are H.264 rather than H.265 (HEVC). I'm not entirely sure why there are no H.265/HEVC streaming options in HD, but this is consistent with the internal recording options for the camera which are also H.264-only for 1080p and below and only give you a choice of H.264 or H.265/HEVC in 4K. For the internal recording formats, this decision made some sense as the bitrates for internal recording in HD are high enough that using H.265 rather than H.264 probably doesn't bring about significant improvements in video quality. For the much lower bitrates used for streaming, H.265 seems like it would be more beneficial, even in HD. Perhaps the camera's H.265 encoding implementation is optimized for higher resolutions like 4K, or maybe this is just an oversight, I'm not really sure.
 
Thanks for your detailed response. I'm a little bit disappointed of the SRT implementation that Panasonic did. It seems like they just translate the codecs and bitrates from the recording side to the streaming side, which needs a completely different approach. BTW, nobody really streams at 4k, specially on location. Facebook accepts only 720p to begin with.

I just thought I would be able achieve similar performance and reliability that I get now using LiveU 4G bonding encoder when contributing from a remote side. SRT is a protocol designed for unreliable networks so it could be a great candidate to substitute some old h264 RTMP encoders. But high-bitrates and inneficient codecs like h264 are just a dissapointment.

I really do not see the point in the built-in streaming options in these camcorders. Who does a streaming directly to youtube? With no mixing, no graphics, just one camera. What kind of professional production requires this? On the other hand, build-in streaming options could be a GREAT way for contributing cameras to a control room. And having an integrated encoder will just simplify the workflow (no external encoders, external batteries, cables...). Another missed oportunity.

davedv said:
The H.265 (HEVC) streaming options only seem to be available when streaming in 4K (this is true for both SRT or RTSP streaming). The HD streaming options retain the same codec (H.264) and bitrate options as before the latest 6.01 firmware update. Although you now have the option to stream using the SRT protocol (in addition to RTSP and RTMP) when streaming in HD.

The way this was implemented, is that a separate Streaming 4K option was added in the Network menu, and this presents different streaming encoding options than if you select the original (HD) Streaming option. The full set of streaming codecs are listed in the table in the Streaming section of the manual:
https://pro-av.panasonic.net/manual...AJ-UPX360ED(DVQP1830UA)_E/chapter09_06_01.htm

You'll notice that only the 4K streaming resolutions have both H.264 and H.265 options as all of the HD (and below) streaming resolutions are H.264. Note also that when streaming using the SRT protocol, only 720p and higher encoding resolutions are enabled (this is indicated by a * in the table). The lower resolution (360p and below) streaming options are not available when using SRT.

Having said all that, there HD streaming settings as low as 1 Mbps for 720p25/30 or 1080p25/30 if you need them, but I believe these are H.264 rather than H.265 (HEVC). I'm not entirely sure why there are no H.265/HEVC streaming options in HD, but this is consistent with the internal recording options for the camera which are also H.264-only for 1080p and below and only give you a choice of H.264 or H.265/HEVC in 4K. For the internal recording formats, this decision made some sense as the bitrates for internal recording in HD are high enough that using H.265 rather than H.264 probably doesn't bring about significant improvements in video quality. For the much lower bitrates used for streaming, H.265 seems like it would be more beneficial, even in HD. Perhaps the camera's H.265 encoding implementation is optimized for higher resolutions like 4K, or maybe this is just an oversight, I'm not really sure.
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Yep, I see the streaming capabilities as something to fill the brochure with. In the end, not very practical for today's needs. 5-10 years ago, a live camera popping on YouTube or Facebook might have been useful, but now, everybody would be disappointed in the lack of switching and graphics - for no money... :)
 
Absolutely

Bassman2003 said:
Yep, I see the streaming capabilities as something to fill the brochure with. In the end, not very practical for today's needs. 5-10 years ago, a live camera popping on YouTube or Facebook might have been useful, but now, everybody would be disappointed in the lack of switching and graphics - for no money... :)
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