GH13 Panasonic VS Canon, Mac VS PC Win 7 - the ridiculous war / herd mentality

Blackout said:
Note: IMPORTER .... so you my first find and download something that does not come with mac and then import....

I simply take my memory card out of my GH1/2 and place it in my laptop and watch it in real time or edit it in real time. No downloading, no transcoding, no importing to prores kaka.
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Thats exactly what I do with my macbook pro. Stick the card in and watch straight away. And I can edit AVCHD in the new versions of premier or final cut no nonsense, just import and cut immediately (no transcoding/rendering etc).
 
Blackout said:
Can one even put in a graphics card of choice (or 3 on the mac) or are you stuck with what they pic?
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You can put your own card in, from a list of compatible cards with the OS. But thats missing the point.. I bought a mac because I want tight, optimized drivers for the one graphics card I use and for it to work flawlessly with no messing about. I really don't need the ability to chop and change cards..
 
if im a fanboy of one thing its saving money. i just built a $1000 pc with better specs then a $3500 mac pro and if i feel like it i have the option to easily run OS X on it in the future. thats a no brainer to me. the reason pc's get a bad rep is because you have so much variation from crap all the way up to the highest quality products. it seems like mac users refuse to acknowledge the upper end of the pc platform.
 
Ben Totman said:
if im a fanboy of one thing its saving money. i just built a $1000 pc with better specs then a $3500 mac pro and if i feel like it i have the option to easily run OS X on it in the future. thats a no brainer to me. the reason pc's get a bad rep is because you have so much variation from crap all the way up to the highest quality products. it seems like mac users refuse to acknowledge the upper end of the pc platform.
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There's no difference between the componants used in PC's and Mac's.. it's the implementation of these components that differs. And while you can run OSX on PCs now (hackintosh) it isn't the same unless you have specifically bought the components apple uses. Otherwise the drivers your using on your hackintosh are written by some bloke called sid from manchester and they have worked on his system once he thinks (rather than a team of people testing and testing and testing).
 
Lucas Adamson said:
You're still doing exactly what you started off criticising Michael. Zealotry for a particular brand, fanboying and irrational distain for that which isn't your way is rife now in this thread - surely the thread's title suggests this thread wasn't intended to be like that - full of ridiculous war-mongering and herd mentality.

The truth is, there is no requirement to transcode to ProRes on a Mac other than for Final Cut 7, which is now essentially obsolete. I never transcode AVCHD footage on my mac. That kind of proves that you don't have to. Today, I downloaded a 3.5Mb file from Panasonic that instantly made OS X open AVCHD files in the finder, so I can watch them any which way. If that's a hassle, I don't know what easy looks like.
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Well then this is new, because when I went to purchase my new machines in the last year I could A> not read avchd or edit it without transcoding to some other format if on mac, and B> could not watch or burn blu-rays, which many of my clients want.

SO great! It's finally here on the mac, if they build a mac that does it faster than I'm working now, I might actually get one again. Edius 6 on a modern Win 7 is fairly insane. I have never seen a mac perform as fast and in full online quality - no rendering or transcoding.
 
Will Turner said:
There's no difference between the componants used in PC's and Mac's.. it's the implementation of these components that differs.
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No, just the pricing. There's only one way to implement a graphics card I know of. Put it in the computer and use it. The difference is Apple spends tons of money on fancy cases and one-button mice and pass that on to the consumer. I don't need that stuff, thanks. I'll buy the same/better hardware for half the price, put it in my own case, and run Windows 7 on it (which is in many ways a far superior OS).

I don't understand - what do people think Apple is doing differently with the same processors and RAM and graphics cards? They're just parts and they're used the same way in every computer.

The difference between Macs and PCs is variety of hardware choices, presentation, and pricing. There are very few meaningful hardware or software differences these days.

BTW, isn't this thread dissolving into the very war we were complaining about? :cheesy:
 
Lucas Adamson said:
You're still doing exactly what you started off criticising Michael. Zealotry for a particular brand, fanboying and irrational distain for that which isn't your way is rife now in this thread - surely the thread's title suggests this thread wasn't intended to be like that - full of ridiculous war-mongering and herd mentality.
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Yeah, but we're right and you're wrong, so... take that
 
Jester2138 said:
I don't understand - what do people think Apple is doing differently with the same processors and RAM and graphics cards? They're just parts and they're used the same way in every computer.

The difference between Macs and PCs is variety of hardware choices, presentation, and pricing. There are very few meaningful hardware or software differences these days.
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No, you don't seem to understand. It's not just the hardware, and to say there are few meaningful software differences these days means you have not spent any time on a Mac. I work with both, and while there are certain things (games for instance) where a Windows machine is better, for my artistic and pure pleasure purposes the Mac is light years ahead. Windows 7 has brought some improvements to the general computing experience, but as always, it is behind what the Apple OS delivers.
 
No I think it made its points rather clearly in both directions. People have preferences for reasons - use what works for you.
 
Blackout said:
........

SO great! It's finally here on the mac, if they build a mac that does it faster than I'm working now, I might actually get one again. Edius 6 on a modern Win 7 is fairly insane. I have never seen a mac perform as fast and in full online quality - no rendering or transcoding.
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In F1 circus the fastest car now is called Redbull running a Renault engine, it has cleaned Ferrari for the past three years, but try putting both cars on market and ask anyone who knows a thing or two about cars which one they would like to have, you'll be surprised at the result you get.
The argument about the price difference is moot because in some countries, one even gets the question of preference between a genuine or third party part, now in this case, do i go for the mac expensive part, or pc genuine not very expensive part or the very cheap pc part? To answer this question, i need to ask myself the question if i would accept if asked during repair of my GH2 which is still on guarantee to be fixed with a genuine sony working part, third party working part or the original panasonic part.

I would rather buy a Ferrari than buy different parts to build a faster car( i leave that to Chip Foose), neither do i want to buy parts to build a better HMC150 (i leave that to the Chineese), not my TV, watch or telephone, then why would i want to do that to my computer? It was fun at 15 years of age when i "build" my first working radio, electric bell and speaker, i buy them nowadays if i need one.

Anyway, the absence of any scientific comparrisson between the two combatants with same specification over a period of time gives us room for subjective speculation.
 
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except that you could teach a blind cat to assemble a pc, its really that easy. no one constucts their own cameras or televisions... thats just a comparison that doesnt make much sense haha. and cars and computers..? come on. and last time i checked macs are not constucted of genuine apple parts, just like a pc they are comprised of different components from different manufacturers. its all preference so everyone should just use what works for them, if someone prefers to pull something out of a box, plug it in and use it, thats fine too.
 
Ben Totman said:
except that you could teach a blind cat to assemble a pc, its really that easy. no one constucts their own cameras or televisions... thats just a comparison that doesnt make much sense haha. and cars and computers..? come on. and last time i checked macs are not constucted of genuine apple parts, just like a pc they are comprised of different components from different manufacturers. its all preference so everyone should just use what works for them, if someone prefers to pull something out of a box, plug it in and use it, thats fine too.
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Haha are you serious? i've done both and both are blind cat's effort as you put it. No one constructs computers either. What does genuine mean to you? to me it is the part which Mac puts into the computer when i buy it from them. For your information cars are made with the same principle, parts bought from different manufacturers. I can change the turbo charger, carburator, exhaust system even the engine block at will, anyway i just want to drive,take videos and edit.
 
absolutely serious haha. the only thing you will see me do to my car is maybe add some fluids or change a tire, anything beyond that and its going to a mechanic. sure i could change this or that but i would most likely destroy the car in the process because i dont have the tools or knowledge, and obviously theres alot more to installing a turbo charger then there is installing a hard drive, cpu, ram... you get the idea.
 
Ben Totman said:
obviously theres alot more to installing a turbo charger then there is installing a hard drive, cpu, ram... you get the idea.
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Yeah, everyone always overestimates the difficulty in assembling computers. It's so easy! Cars are totally different. For one thing, you can die driving a car, but you're not going to die if you click on the wrong thing. At least, you probably won't... Installing a new hard drive is a simple as: 1. take out the old one... 2. put in the new one. 3. Done!
 
I think the important point here is that companies and computers who use proprietary codecs--and this could be anyone--are evil. And the codec that caused Blackout all the hassles is a good example of this. And you can have this crappy, closed architecture, small mindedness on any kind of computer, like PCs and Macs that require a "special sound card" to run audio software--even thought the CPU could do it in the background and never drop a sample. And the reason that these things should just go away, is the WE, the endusers, get stuck trying to make it work in the middle of the night and spend hours on workarounds over hurdles that are deliberately built into the systems. So yes, that codec is a royal bummer, and so are the PC versions of the same tired logic. Inside, having looked, the computers are all the same, which is why you can run Mac OS on a PC and the other way 'round.
 
DrDave said:
I think the important point here is that companies and computers who use proprietary codecs--and this could be anyone--are evil. And the codec that caused Blackout all the hassles is a good example of this. And you can have this crappy, closed architecture, small mindedness on any kind of computer, like PCs and Macs that require a "special sound card" to run audio software--even thought the CPU could do it in the background and never drop a sample. And the reason that these things should just go away, is the WE, the endusers, get stuck trying to make it work in the middle of the night and spend hours on workarounds over hurdles that are deliberately built into the systems. So yes, that codec is a royal bummer, and so are the PC versions of the same tired logic. Inside, having looked, the computers are all the same, which is why you can run Mac OS on a PC and the other way 'round.
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Rock awhn +42 points

I finally got the footage converted and ugh it was horrible anyway.
 
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