Panasonic Varicam 35 & Varicam HS

Unless they've changed the design by now, remember that the idea with the new Varicams is that they will be in 2 parts - the main body and 2 separate front ends - one 35mm PL and 1 2/3" b4 - so you can buy 1 body and just switch sensor units. With the price of $60k I was kind of assuming it would be say $30k for the main back / recording section and $30k for each of the front ends - but we'll see.
Steve
 
steve phillipps said:
Well, there is. If the f stop is smaller there is less light.
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Honestly, no. The s35 image is dimmer - but bigger. The adaptor doesn't lose any light - just spreads it out. The same number of photons fall on the sensor in each case.

Technically, the luminous flux remains constant whilst the illuminance goes down.

If it was being used as a teleconvertor (ie keeping the sensor size the same) then yes, there would be light loss - because then much of the light would fall outside the sensor area and not be used - but that's not the case here.

Optically (and assuming all else equal) then if you had two identical B4 lenses, with the same settings on each (iris, focal length and focus) and put one on a 2/3" camera, the other on s35 via adaptor, then purely by looking at the outputs you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Not in terms of angle of view, depth of field or sensitivity.

[There is a practical caveat to this, which is that one factor will most likely NOT be equal between the two setups, namely the 2/3" sensor is most likely to be 3 chip, the s35 single chip with Bayer filtration. What I described above would hold true if you compared such as an HPX600 as the 2/3" camera (it's single chip, the only 2/3" single chip camera I can think of) - practically the 2/3" camera is far more likely to be 3 chip, and have a consequent advantage of about a stop. But that's down to sensor technology matters - not optics, and not light loss in the convertor.]
 
Ah yes. Swappable heads. Just looked at the brochure again. Not sure which part will be more expensive (recording or the PL or B4 cam modules). For no-compromise shooters, the Varicam offers the best of both B4 & PL worlds w/ no 3rd party lens adapter.
 
lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com said:
The only concern I have with the adaptor will be the total weight and center of gravity. Not sure it can handle the 6.5 lbs (Fujinon HA25x16.5BERD) + the TS-P58A optical stabilizer (about another 1.5 lbs) that I used extensively for wildlife. They both work fine w/ out any cumbersome support rods on 2/3" cam. But another adaptor may break the whole thing if it's hand-carried in the bumpy field.
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The link from Sony I posted earlier states:
Q5：What’s the maximum supported lens weight LA-FZB1?

Approx. 3 kg without support rods

Approx. 10kg with support rods
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...... but I'd think the camera-adaptor mount is more robust than the B4 side? I think it's reasonably safe to think that anything you can safely put directly on a B4 2/3" camera, you can put onto the adaptor with the same constraints.

Note the Sony adaptor is FZ mount and intended to go directly onto the F5/55. I'd expect it would work with other manufacturers via an FZ-PL adaptor?

Looking at that link, they also talk about features other than optical - connectivity etc - which may be something to consider when you're looking in to which camera, which adaptor etc.
Q9：What’s the difference between Sony’s adapters and others?

1 - Sony’s adapters are FZ mount while others are PL mount.

2 - The advantage of Sony’s adapters is they make good use of bright lenses than the other adapters on the market, in addition our adapters minimize the light falloff at the edges. (Because max. Input F Number of Sony’s is 1.4 while other products average F number is 1.7 to 1.8)

3 - Sony’s adapters have 12-pin lens interface.

Q10：What functions are available with 12-pin lens interface?

Available with PMW-F55/F5 Ver. 2.0 (ex Ver1.3)

•Rec start/stop control from zoom lens
•Control from RM-B remote (Iris/Zoom/Focus)
•Lens Information display
•Control from CBK-DCB01 (Zoom)
•Chromatic aberration compensation


Available with PMW-F55/F5 Ver. 3.0 (December/2013)
•Auto iris
•RET (Rec review) button from lens
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The optical side is one thing, the connectivity another.
 
8.5 lbs is over the 6 lbs/3 kg limit on the Sony adaptor. No go or just too risky for the long walk.

I just glanced through the options for the F5/F55 and frankly those options will eventually creep up to $50-60K, which is within the Varicam 35 & HS ball park.. For example, the Sony CBK-55K will be about $8K just for the shoulder pad capability. And eventually all other options (Pro Res, B4, etc..) Either way, I see a fully functional 4K cam to be about $50-70K (before lens). Sony is clever to price the bare bone body as low as possible. Maybe it's about $10K cheaper than the fully featured Varicam 35. But it'll not be too far off.

harddrive said:
The link from Sony I posted earlier states:

...... but I'd think the camera-adaptor mount is more robust than the B4 side? I think it's reasonably safe to think that anything you can safely put directly on a B4 2/3" camera, you can put onto the adaptor with the same constraints.

Note the Sony adaptor is FZ mount and intended to go directly onto the F5/55. I'd expect it would work with other manufacturers via an FZ-PL adaptor?

Looking at that link, they also talk about features other than optical - connectivity etc - which may be something to consider when you're looking in to which camera, which adaptor etc.

The optical side is one thing, the connectivity another.
Click to expand...
 
lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com said:
8.5 lbs is over the 6 lbs/3 kg limit on the Sony adaptor. No go or just too risky for the long walk.
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Well... 3kg is 6.6lbs, so a little closer! :) Question is, do you know what the quoted max loading weight is on your existing 2/3" camera? I don't recall ever seeing it in a spec sheet. I have a strong suspicion it may be very similar to the 3kg quoted here - a function of the B4 system itself. In other words, you may likely have been over the recommended max before - it's just the figure wasn't given!

And a max weight can't be precise anyway as it will depend on where the centre of gravity is. A lighter lens with c of g further out may put more strain on the mount than a heavier one with c of g nearer the camera.
lonewolf2koc@hotmail.com said:
I just glanced through the options for the F5/F55 and frankly those options will eventually creep up to $50-60K, which is within the Varicam 35 & HS ball park.. For example, the Sony CBK-55K will be about $8K just for the shoulder pad capability. And eventually all other options (Pro Res, B4, etc..) Either way, I see a fully functional 4K cam to be about $50-70K (before lens). Sony is clever to price the bare bone body as low as possible. Maybe it's about $10K cheaper than the fully featured Varicam 35. But it'll not be too far off.
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But I'd expect to have to pay extra for shoulderpad capability for the Varicam as well, from the pictures I've seen? ( http://business.panasonic.co.uk/pro...sonic-announces-prores-support-for-4k-varicam ) Likewise the audio features etc that the CBK-55K adds to the F5/55, the bare Varicam doesn't seem any better or worse in this regard. Have you seen any similar product to the CBK-55K for the Varicam?

The only item I'm aware of that is normally extra for the F5/55, but included for the Varicam is the viewfinder - but that's only about $3,000.

But if either camera is still too much, the F5 may now be regarded as a more valid competitor to the Varicam, now Sony have (officially) given it the ability to record 4k in camera with XAVC. Street price of under $20,000 for kit with v/f and other accessories. It's not a rolling shutter like the F55 - but then neither is the Varicam.
 
harddrive said:
But if either camera is still too much, the F5 may now be regarded as a more valid competitor to the Varicam, now Sony have (officially) given it the ability to record 4k in camera with XAVC. Street price of under $20,000 for kit with v/f and other accessories.
Click to expand...

Or why not the FS7 for only $10k? Also does 4k XAVC. But unlike the Varicam neither of these, nor the F55 do 120fps at 4k.

Steve
 
steve phillipps said:
Or why not the FS7 for only $10k?
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As I'm sure you're aware, then good though the FS7 may be, it's in a different league. Maybe not in the things people like to obsess about (codecs, resolution etc) but in terms of lens mount, connectivity etc. I haven't seen an FS7 yet, but I wouldn't expect it to be as rugged as the F5/55 or the Varicam.
But unlike the Varicam neither of these, nor the F55 do 120fps at 4k.
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Assuming the 4k 120fps is full 4k resolution.......... :)

Sony advertise the FS700 as "Shoot 120 and 240fps bursts at Full HD 1920x1080 for super slow motion." In practice, those modes are not Full HD, they're 960x540 with a lot of aliasing, which is obvious from a chart.

If I was buying a Varicam on the basis of the 4k 120fps, I'd want to see it on a chart in that mode first. I may be pleasantly surprised, but I'd like to check.......
 
harddrive said:
As I'm sure you're aware, then good though the FS7 may be, it's in a different league. Maybe not in the things people like to obsess about (codecs, resolution etc) but in terms of lens mount, connectivity etc. I haven't seen an FS7 yet, but I wouldn't expect it to be as rugged as the F5/55 or the Varicam.

Assuming the 4k 120fps is full 4k resolution.......... :)

Sony advertise the FS700 as "Shoot 120 and 240fps bursts at Full HD 1920x1080 for super slow motion." In practice, those modes are not Full HD, they're 960x540 with a lot of aliasing, which is obvious from a chart.

If I was buying a Varicam on the basis of the 4k 120fps, I'd want to see it on a chart in that mode first. I may be pleasantly surprised, but I'd like to check.......
Click to expand...

I think that's sign of times if you're considering the F55 as rugged - not in my books, and I'd hope the Varicam would be significantly more so - I think it's one reason why the F55 etc. are, relatively-speaking, so cheap.
I would be extremely surprised if the 4k 120fps was not full rez, again probably one reason for the quoted high price. It's not a big deal, Epic has had full rez 4k 150fps for years now.
Steve
 
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It's right at the limit w/ 2/3" cam. If I want to change the lens, I have to point the camera up to the sky (fully 90 degree vertical) and rotate the B4 lens ring counterclockwise. Will have to use a digital scale and measure the actual weight, including the 127mm filter, lens hood, lens cap). Typically on lenses <3 kg, I can still change it horizontally. Putting it in a vertical position adds more potential dust to get inside the B4 lens module. However, I'll ask local dealer when I'm close to the final purchasing decision w/ Sony or Panasonic route.

F5 sounds like a good alternative to the Varicam 35. This may pressure Panasonic to reduce the price within the year of release. Presently, 95% of my final delivery is still 1080p. A few are actually still in the good old 480i DigiBeta tape master & digital h.264 file for DTV broadcasts. So I'm in no urgent rush to move to all 4K. I think a few years from now 4K will be more attractive in terms of price and features. The question now is whether spending the extra $40-60K 2014 is worthwhile to future proof the production vs in 2018, where 4K will have broader demand and by then, F5/F55 are eclipsed by a newer and better quality cam. However, 120-240 fps is very tempting for dramatic slow motion, especially wildlife and sports genres.

harddrive said:
Well... 3kg is 6.6lbs, so a little closer! :) Question is, do you know what the quoted max loading weight is on your existing 2/3" camera? I don't recall ever seeing it in a spec sheet. I have a strong suspicion it may be very similar to the 3kg quoted here - a function of the B4 system itself. In other words, you may likely have been over the recommended max before - it's just the figure wasn't given!

And a max weight can't be precise anyway as it will depend on where the centre of gravity is. A lighter lens with c of g further out may put more strain on the mount than a heavier one with c of g nearer the camera.

But I'd expect to have to pay extra for shoulderpad capability for the Varicam as well, from the pictures I've seen? ( http://business.panasonic.co.uk/pro...sonic-announces-prores-support-for-4k-varicam ) Likewise the audio features etc that the CBK-55K adds to the F5/55, the bare Varicam doesn't seem any better or worse in this regard. Have you seen any similar product to the CBK-55K for the Varicam?

The only item I'm aware of that is normally extra for the F5/55, but included for the Varicam is the viewfinder - but that's only about $3,000.

But if either camera is still too much, the F5 may now be regarded as a more valid competitor to the Varicam, now Sony have (officially) given it the ability to record 4k in camera with XAVC. Street price of under $20,000 for kit with v/f and other accessories. It's not a rolling shutter like the F55 - but then neither is the Varicam.
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No, it's not shipping right now...we should have more info soon on when it's really going to ship. You can PM me if needed..

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
 
Don't know other than reading into it "immediate" meaning shipping now.....Ourselves and Abel are the 2 dealers here in town. Panasonic has all of 4 prototypes that are being shown around the world. We were told that the cameras would arrive before the end of the year......

Jim Martin
EVSonline.com
 
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