does the exposure metering work with adapters? i assume it does since it's a full time live view camera, but given the stupidity of the d90 who knows. i use my cameras for both stills and video and while i like manual focusing and aperture even for stills i think aperture priority exposure is a wonderful thing that's hard to live without. for video full manual is fine or even better, especially with a live histogram (does the live histogram work with manual lenses?).
Panasonic unveiled G1-HD...
- Thread starter Uwe Lansing
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35mm FOV would be really nice. And all things that may come with it, like better lowlight performance.
But I started thinking about how the size of the camera body will come into play, and how you can at least simulate an ultra wide shot by backing this tiny camera body into the corner.
So the lack of 35mm FOV isn't all that terrible, and for most applications it won't be an issue, I think.
But I started thinking about how the size of the camera body will come into play, and how you can at least simulate an ultra wide shot by backing this tiny camera body into the corner.
So the lack of 35mm FOV isn't all that terrible, and for most applications it won't be an issue, I think.
Steve Castle
Well-known member
Yep, I think dealing with the crop factor is inescapable. Luckily there are a large variety of affordable wider-lenses to choose from.
There are a lot of quality 'forgotten' mounts out there that have been left behind in the digital era and have decreased in popularity due to a incompatibility with modern dSLRs. I've been looking on Ebay in preparation for the GH1 and many of them are a bargain.
Park Edwards
Veteran
thanks Castle. 1,340...That's not bad. I'm probably most likely will just wait for a Gh1 body than spending the extra dough on a lens I'll never use. Especially since I can just use my nikkors with it...yes, in manual mode.
Steve Castle
Well-known member
Yes, it will from what I've read. If you select "Shoot w/o lens" from the menu it will go to adapter mode where exposure and metering will function. You will even have MF-assist mode to help you keep in focus. But I'm not sure about the histogram.
This individual even figured out a way to get the Nikon G-lenses (that lack a physical aperture) to work with the G1. Supposedly there are G-lens adapter that will be released soon (important to me since I have a thousands of dollars worth of these lenses).
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/forum/topic/757835
Here's a thread on the Rnagefinder forums that discusses experiences with adapters:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1017915
Some Instructions from an adapter maker:
http://www.cameraquest.com/adp_micro_43.htm
squig
Veteran
I just came across this discussion on the dvinfo forum-
"No matter how the GH1 sensor size really pans out, it'll be between 1.2 to 1.4 crop factor compared to cinema film. If a crop factor of 1.6 means 1 F-stop (see page 1 of this thread), then the GH1 crop factor of around 1.3 is roughly half an F-stop.
It was written earlier that the Godfather was filmed on T2.8. With the lenses at that time that will equal around F2.5. Open your lenses to F2.0 on the GH1 and you can get the shallow Godfather DOF. There are plenty of F1.4-F1.8 photo primes from 35mm and up. For the 20mm you can use the Panasonic F1.7 pancake lens announced and for wider shots DOF is not such a big issue."
and this-
"The films you mention were all shot on 35mm, but on 35mm cinema format where the image area is about to half of the FF35mm stills camera that 5D2 replicates.
5D2 is closer to vistavision 8 perforations v 4 perforations that 35mm cine format has. The DOF is much shallower, focus is much harder to control and in a real world production environment, more time consuming and expensive. Just to maintain a decent DOF of few centimeters, no more that 0.5m, to keep dialog scenes in focus requires to stop down the lens a bit. Most of the films you mentioned in your post were shot at apertures of 2.8 - 4, rarely above 5.6. (Citizen Kane, Paper Moon - as exceptions, Godfather at T2.8). You have to stop down a little bit, not only to manage the DOF for some complex action scenes, but also to get the optimum contrast, definition from the lenses in use.
Stop down a lens and you'll increase the lighting level and from here, the budget and crew size in no time at all.
I am totally for DOF control, it's a major part of the arsenal a filmmaker has in telling a story, but only one of the tools.
5D2 is a great stills camera, but lack of consistent manual control over movie mode exposure parameters puts it out of contention for me. I was even considering it when it was released to shoot my last feature. I tested it and it was a NO GO big time. I have a nice set of some of the best Canon L glass but couldn't use it. We went in the end with RED ONE and Nikon manual focus lenses I used and collected through the years. I am still hoping that Canon will do something about it but I doubt it. Even the newly released 500D has the same issues.
I want one for personal and smaller projects, but the only hope for something like this looks the Panasonic G1H, with a sensor only marginally smaller than RED ONE, twice larger than S16, 2/3". I presume that its pixel size of 4.5µm will deliver also pretty good pictures with low noise and decent dynamic range. Not to mention the possibility of using almost any lens one can imagine (except the Canon EF - bummer)."
So it seems to me if I buy the GH1 and slap an Olympus 14-35mm f/2 lens on it I can shoot my film with this sucker and except for a lot of compression it's going to look very much like 35mm. I'll probably sell all my nikon primes except for a 50mm f/1.2 and a 105mm. If Nikon don't counter with something better on April 14th I'm getting the GH1. The question is do I get the 24p version or the 25p version? Is 24p going to make a noticeable difference with 50hz scrolling waves?
"No matter how the GH1 sensor size really pans out, it'll be between 1.2 to 1.4 crop factor compared to cinema film. If a crop factor of 1.6 means 1 F-stop (see page 1 of this thread), then the GH1 crop factor of around 1.3 is roughly half an F-stop.
It was written earlier that the Godfather was filmed on T2.8. With the lenses at that time that will equal around F2.5. Open your lenses to F2.0 on the GH1 and you can get the shallow Godfather DOF. There are plenty of F1.4-F1.8 photo primes from 35mm and up. For the 20mm you can use the Panasonic F1.7 pancake lens announced and for wider shots DOF is not such a big issue."
and this-
"The films you mention were all shot on 35mm, but on 35mm cinema format where the image area is about to half of the FF35mm stills camera that 5D2 replicates.
5D2 is closer to vistavision 8 perforations v 4 perforations that 35mm cine format has. The DOF is much shallower, focus is much harder to control and in a real world production environment, more time consuming and expensive. Just to maintain a decent DOF of few centimeters, no more that 0.5m, to keep dialog scenes in focus requires to stop down the lens a bit. Most of the films you mentioned in your post were shot at apertures of 2.8 - 4, rarely above 5.6. (Citizen Kane, Paper Moon - as exceptions, Godfather at T2.8). You have to stop down a little bit, not only to manage the DOF for some complex action scenes, but also to get the optimum contrast, definition from the lenses in use.
Stop down a lens and you'll increase the lighting level and from here, the budget and crew size in no time at all.
I am totally for DOF control, it's a major part of the arsenal a filmmaker has in telling a story, but only one of the tools.
5D2 is a great stills camera, but lack of consistent manual control over movie mode exposure parameters puts it out of contention for me. I was even considering it when it was released to shoot my last feature. I tested it and it was a NO GO big time. I have a nice set of some of the best Canon L glass but couldn't use it. We went in the end with RED ONE and Nikon manual focus lenses I used and collected through the years. I am still hoping that Canon will do something about it but I doubt it. Even the newly released 500D has the same issues.
I want one for personal and smaller projects, but the only hope for something like this looks the Panasonic G1H, with a sensor only marginally smaller than RED ONE, twice larger than S16, 2/3". I presume that its pixel size of 4.5µm will deliver also pretty good pictures with low noise and decent dynamic range. Not to mention the possibility of using almost any lens one can imagine (except the Canon EF - bummer)."
So it seems to me if I buy the GH1 and slap an Olympus 14-35mm f/2 lens on it I can shoot my film with this sucker and except for a lot of compression it's going to look very much like 35mm. I'll probably sell all my nikon primes except for a 50mm f/1.2 and a 105mm. If Nikon don't counter with something better on April 14th I'm getting the GH1. The question is do I get the 24p version or the 25p version? Is 24p going to make a noticeable difference with 50hz scrolling waves?
Park Edwards
Veteran
"we"? what you want. i don't want 50mbs compession. I'd bet you couldn't see a difference in 17 and 25.
This whole DOF thing is getting out of hand. I wouldn't be tryin' to shoot at a Vistavision sized frame (5D MKii) but I'm not too scared of a smaller FOV than 35mm.
it's still LARGER than 2/3" sensors, and plenty gets done with those.
Here are some RED Charts that show the differences of 4k, 3k, and 2k:
4K: http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=bznumdnmrid&thumb=4
3K: http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=5ptkitz3zrw&thumb=4
2k: http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=f54onqxdh3j&thumb=4
Here are some [unfinished] images from RED w/Nikon lenses strapped to it. Tell me which is 2, 3 and 4K.
it's still LARGER than 2/3" sensors, and plenty gets done with those.
Here are some RED Charts that show the differences of 4k, 3k, and 2k:
4K: http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=bznumdnmrid&thumb=4
3K: http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=5ptkitz3zrw&thumb=4
2k: http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=f54onqxdh3j&thumb=4
Here are some [unfinished] images from RED w/Nikon lenses strapped to it. Tell me which is 2, 3 and 4K.
This whole DOF thing is getting out of hand. I wouldn't be tryin' to shoot at a Vistavision sized frame (5D MKii) but I'm not too scared of a smaller FOV than 35mm.
it's still LARGER than 2/3" sensors, and plenty gets done with those.
Here are some RED Charts that show the differences of 4k, 3k, and 2k:
4K: http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=bznumdnmrid&thumb=4
3K: http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=5ptkitz3zrw&thumb=4
2k: http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=f54onqxdh3j&thumb=4
Here are some [unfinished] images from RED w/Nikon lenses strapped to it. Tell me which is 2, 3 and 4K.
Whoa whoa whoa bro! What are these from???!!!!!!
John Caballero
Veteran
Isn't that from Legend of The Seeker?
Robert Altman
Active member
Why are we confusing DOF with resolution??
DOF is sensor size related--NOT sensor resolution related!
DOF is sensor size related--NOT sensor resolution related!
Why are we not reading/researching before we post?
To acquire a 3K and 2K image RED, to put it so you understand it without having to read too much, "crops" the sensor. So you no longer have your 35mm FOV, you're now using less of the image sensor.
4K = about S35 FOV
3K = Somewhere around the D90ish GH-1 FOV (not sure which is closer)
2K = about a 16mm FOV
So yeah, you're wrong: this is DOF and FOV related. Not to mention the other shooting modes involved in that, further altering your FOV and DOF characeristics.
I'll let more guesses come in.
LoL it's just test footage from a project! SHhhhhHHHhH!
John - Nah, just test footage from a project.
Park Edwards
Veteran
Ohh snap!, Gues you told him.
But it's kind of a trick question considering we don't what F/Tstop each lens was used for what shot...but my guess
1 4k
2 2k
3 3k
Fair enough. Also, all of these shots are at about 1/250 ~ 1/500+ Shutter. That means a good portion were shot at about 2.8~4.
And if you look at the Blood on the Sword, that's a Macro shot, so it's WIDE open, using the shutter (because I didn't have NDs) to chop light.
Robert Altman
Active member
This is only true because of the nature of the way the RED sensor is cropped--in general there would be NO specific relation between resolution and depth of field. It is optically related to the sensor size.
Showing the 3 crop factor pictures from the RED without letting us know what the F (or T)-stops are of course makes comparison difficult. At some point putting an F1.4 lens, wide open, on a large sensor will provide a shallower d DOF than a smaller sensor can possibly provide. The real question is--how shallow a DOF do you want?
My feeling is that the option to have the shallowest DOF is always good, and the 4/3 systems do represent a compromise. IF you can wait I am sure that we will have a well configured full 35mm dSLR that does what we want in the motion picture department.
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