Panasonic unveiled G1-HD...

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Emanuel said:
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Because otherwise, finishing in 2K gives you enough even for the big screen.

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I've seen excellent results from a 2K transfer (originated digitally, I mean sub-$20K digital shot).

This short blown up to the 35mm KODAK film:

http://www.vimeo.com/2631140

BTS:
http://www.vimeo.com/3633978

I could find some differences between the 110fps-120fps 2K footage from the 4K. The average Joe won't go so far but there's a distinct level of resolution on the screen.

I believe you can find the same between RED 4K and 5D MKII 1080p -- that's why you never should cut different sources into the same scene (rule#1 even @scriptwriting ;-). Even if, I'd rather hope that you can not to notice them between REDCODE36 and h.264 45Mb/s (5D MKII). May David bring some educated guess on this.
 
squig said:
You're talking to a guy that gets clean analogue audio, puts it through cheap nasty russian valves, digitises it and then distorts it to get the right sound.
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The 5D might be good for a disney movie but it's pretty useless to me without a lot of pixel destruction in post. why bother when the D90 has already done the work for me.
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I like to do similar things with audio, and in fact part of what got me interested int he d90 was the slightly 'dirty' quality of the fottage I was seeing, which reminded of cool 8& 16mm stuff.

On the other hand, as you say above you can start out with clean audio and rough it up; this is what gives the greatest range of options. So why not start with clean video and then trash it after you have everything else going? OK, that likely means a beefy computer if you plan on taking the entire thing through After Effects or suchlike, but a 2nd hand workstation isn't that expensive and is an investment that'll pay for itself.
 
I have a feeling that if any of you guys could show Squid a proven process that would add a nice film look (and feel) to the 5D footage, he would not hesitate to use it for his feature ;-)
 
The one thing that the 5D can never do is 24fps. You can always dirty up an image/add filtration/add grain. BUT you can never truly convert 30fps to 24 fps. Optical flow can do a good job--but true 24 fps is still the best.

Still my prediction--in one year we will all be happy with a Nikon that will do it all. The d90/5D/GH-1 discussions will all be archived and dead.
 
Ruzo said:
I have a feeling that if any of you guys could show Squid a proven process that would add a nice film look (and feel) to the 5D footage, he would not hesitate to use it for his feature ;-)
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I have thought about it but It's just not inspiring what I've seen raw out of the 5D. Like the stuff from the zacuto shootout. The 5D looked really cold. To my eyes while soft the D90 was the closest imitation of film (16mm) in terms of warmth and DOF. If someone can point me to some warm film-like 5D footage I'd like to see it. But a D90 or D400 with double the bitrate and a manual shutter is enough for me for now.

Yes I like to get down and dirty. This debate very much reminds me of the debates we used to have about analogue and digital audio. I was a record producer in a past life. A lot of guys used to jerk off about pro tools and the quality of their A/D converters while the rest of us impoverished creatives were using cubase and cheap and nasty converters but putting stuff through valves and old analogue desks to warm things up a bit...and getting really good recordings of really good performances. The pro tools guys would tell me it's not gonna sound pro. Well I recorded an album in my attic, released it in AUS, the EU, UK and Japan. Signed a deal with a major label for 1.7 million and got an ARIA award for best dance release. All done on 10k worth of gear and a lot of hard work and passion.
 
Robert Altman said:
The one thing that the 5D can never do is 24fps. You can always dirty up an image/add filtration/add grain. BUT you can never truly convert 30fps to 24 fps. Optical flow can do a good job--but true 24 fps is still the best.

Still my prediction--in one year we will all be happy with a Nikon that will do it all. The d90/5D/GH-1 discussions will all be archived and dead.
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I don't think it will be that long. They should have the D400 out by summer and the D800 by the end of the year. I'm just speculating but it would be inline with regular product update cycles.

Whether or not they have the features we want remains to be seen but it's not hard to provide manual control and double the bitrate. I like how nikon have gone with mjpeg a true 24fps codec. they just need to push it to 160-250kb per frame and it would rate with 35mm film. Overcoming the sensor cooking would help too.
 
Eddy Robinson said:
I like to do similar things with audio, and in fact part of what got me interested int he d90 was the slightly 'dirty' quality of the fottage I was seeing, which reminded of cool 8& 16mm stuff.

On the other hand, as you say above you can start out with clean audio and rough it up; this is what gives the greatest range of options. So why not start with clean video and then trash it after you have everything else going? OK, that likely means a beefy computer if you plan on taking the entire thing through After Effects or suchlike, but a 2nd hand workstation isn't that expensive and is an investment that'll pay for itself.
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I could but I think I already spend enough of my life staring at a screen. And a 5D, faster mac and assorted software would push my budget into the visa zone.
 
squig said:
If someone can point me to some warm film-like 5D footage I'd like to see it.
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I've used both now. And the D90 was great for this shoot:

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/dslr/D90.jpg
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/dslr/D90b.jpg
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/dslr/D90c.jpg
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/dslr/D90d.jpg

But the jello factor was horrid, but I edited around it with success. 2nd issue was softness. At 720p it's just not sharp. It's great downscaled to SD though. Additionally using the scaler fix, I got rid of the jaggies.

I just rented the 5DMkII this weekend since everything I've seen online has had so much less skew jello, and a resolution that's unbelievable. So here's some grabs from that:

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/dslr/5DMkII_1.jpg
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/dslr/5DMkII_2.jpg
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/dslr/5DMkII_3.jpg
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/dslr/5DMkII_4.jpg
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/dslr/5DMkII_5.jpg

It's definitely sharper with no jaggies, but is it warmer? It has plenty of potential for me. The improvement over the jello factor of the D90 and the resolution boost outweigh the absence of 30p for me.

But I have hopes for the GH1 still. I wish I had the patience to wait for Nikon.

-steev
 
Thanks holyzoo, I couldn't say it better myself.

Again, if anybody wants to sink a few grand on a D90 project by all means go and do it. If it makes you happy, why not.
 
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some nice stills there.

jello hasn't been an issue for me with a steadytracker and a 28mm lens. I think I'll wait till Nikon makes a full frame HDSLR before I spend that much on a crippled camera.
 
squig said:
The 5D looked really cold. To my eyes while soft the D90 was the closest imitation of film (16mm) in terms of warmth and DOF. If someone can point me to some warm film-like 5D footage I'd like to see it.
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What do you mean by film-like, grainy-like?

I'd suggest you can go to Vimeo and search 5D Mark II where you can find examples such as this one:

http://vimeo.com/3598813

Nothing special. It can give you a different POV anyway. As said, to be or not to be film-like is a set of different variables, not just choice of the capture device per se.
 
squig said:
I think I'll wait till Nikon makes a full frame HDSLR before I spend that much on a crippled camera.
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Yeah, that is the pain in buying a 5D - it is crippled. My preference would be from Nikon. I was very close to buying the D90 after I rented it.

By the way, I came up with some estimate examples of DOF with the smaller sensor. Key thing is adjusting for the different focal length for each camera so the FOV is the same.

Using http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

Canon 5DMkII, 55mm lens at f2 = 1.19ft DOF
GH1, 27mm lens at f2 = 2.53ft
HVX200, 7.15mm lens at f2 = Infinity
 
that 5D mark II video is a great example of the cameras sharpness. For a moment, before properly reading where the video came from, i was like. OMG, a sharp D90 video? Then BAM, nope, canon.

Darn.
 
That's what I'm saying. It is clean as a whistle...especially for a Web version. And the colors are so vibrant. Promising indeed.
 
Holy CRAP that's clean!!! Very very freakin' nice, man. Jury is still out, but this just got even more promising.
 
Thank you Ian-T for stoping my anxiety attack. No GH1 news for so long and then this. Great find. The video of the girl looks mighty good. Lets hope is not an optical illusion. My opinion is that Panasonic has a video legacy to protect and they are not going to give its clients a camera with unusable video. Especially when they are giving it manual controls and 1080p at 24 fps. They gave us the DVX 100, which was brilliant at the time, the HVX 200 and hopefully now a very good VDSLR. I think and I hope I am going to have a great time with this one. BTW the stills look excellent.
 
Holy crap that's crap! There is no texture detail. Look at the flower, her face. Even in her dress it struggles to show the pattern let alone any texture. The low frequency contrast was high, not great but very good. The video was more or less DV resolution and most decent DV 1/3" cameras (DX100, JVC DV300, PD150) would do better.

I will accept the web compression as the excuse, but it seems much worse than equivalent footage on vimeo or youtube.
 
David, I think I'm going to just have to accept that I look for different things than you do when watching video. To say that a 1/3 camera would do better is a but suspect though. Come on, really...

And we're well aware of how you feel about this camera and your affinity for the 5D.
 
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