Panasonic S1H Announcement Tuesday, August 27th

One thing I will give Panasonic credit for is that they hit their announced release date targets. When they first introduced the S1H at Cine Gear, they said it would be available in Fall 2019. And then when they announced the full specification list and opened things up for pre-orders, they listed September 25th as the ship date. And true to their word, that is exactly what ended up happening.

So at least from that standpoint, the camera is off to a pretty good start. Now, whether the camera's performance lives up to expectations will have to wait for real-world users to report.
 
puredrifting said:
You say this kiddingly, but I could see this actually happening. It seems as if the manufacturers will do anything to not have to actually innovate. Larger sensors and increasing resolution have been a very convenient way to avoid innovation for years now.
Unlike most users, I see resolution wars and FF sensors as a cop out. But the market definitely doesn't. That's why the C500 MKII and the FX9 HAD to have FF sensors and 6K and I have no doubt that if they could have, Canon and Sony would have made them 8K or even 12K
resolution. Think if the C500 MKII would have FF but the FX9 would have retained a S35 sensor, the marekt would have instantly rendered the FX9 as an abject failure. The brainwashing is complete.

It's funny but it seems as if the market for digital cinema cameras has become VERY Lemming-like over the past few years. I see very little healthy cynicism or skepticism about WHY the manufacturers shove things down users throats instead of listening to what
users want and need to do their jobs more effectively. it seems as if the average customer just buys into whatever nonsense the manufacturers are selling.
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In defense of the manufacturers, apparently at least some of them are being inundated with request for full frame products as Mitch noted in the post linked below. It seems to me that Sony would have wanted to make their F55 replacement their next full frame model. Now they are going have a bunch of customers shooting with an $11K camera saying their FX9 is better the F55 and perhaps equal to it's eventual replacement. I don't know why they would do that unless customer demand forced the issue.

Reliable autofocus is obviously the tech that makes full frame a viable option for low to mid range video work. At the high end there is great but expensive gear that allows a larger production's trained crew to nail focus even when shooting 6K FF. Unfortunately, I don't own any of that gear or shoot with a crew experienced with said equipment. The superior autofocus on the C500 MKII and FX9 will likely level the playing field enough for me to feel comfortable shooting full frame again.

It will be interesting see what the market is saying about full frame on the C500 MKII and FX9 a year from now. I expect the reception will be largely positive.

Mitch Gross said:
The VAST majority of the market has requested full frame products from us. We are not going to ignore what clients want.
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Gary T said:
It seems to me that Sony would have wanted to make their F55 replacement their next full frame model. Now they are going have a bunch of customers shooting with an $11K camera saying their FX9 is better the F55 and perhaps equal to it's eventual replacement.
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Oh, the horror!
 
NorBro said:
I know you most likely think this is good - and thank you for posting it, truly - but this an absolutely PERFECT example of why the Panasonic AF is inferior.

Just look at the background in every single shot. It pulses continuously. (Look at the ZOOM letters...growing and shrinking.)
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Perfectly describes the AF-C performance on the XT-3 also since the 3.0 FW update.
 
Gary T said:
In defense of the manufacturers, apparently at least some of them are being inundated with request for full frame products as Mitch noted in the post linked below. It seems to me that Sony would have wanted to make their F55 replacement their next full frame model. Now they are going have a bunch of customers shooting with an $11K camera saying their FX9 is better the F55 and perhaps equal to it's eventual replacement. I don't know why they would do that unless customer demand forced the issue.

Reliable autofocus is obviously the tech that makes full frame a viable option for low to mid range video work. At the high end there is great but expensive gear that allows a larger production's trained crew to nail focus even when shooting 6K FF. Unfortunately, I don't own any of that gear or shoot with a crew experienced with said equipment. The superior autofocus on the C500 MKII and FX9 will likely level the playing field enough for me to feel comfortable shooting full frame again.

It will be interesting see what the market is saying about full frame on the C500 MKII and FX9 a year from now. I expect the reception will be largely positive.
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I will concede that 6K oversampling for 4K shooting and being able to still shoot with a S35 windowed portion of the sensor renders much of my complaint moot. As long as I can still use S35 lenses with either camera, FF doesn't affect me, other than I would be paying for something I don't really want or need. But that's just me.
One can't deny that FF is the new standard, and sadly, new S35 cameras will die off soon so it's a done deal anyway. I can complain about it but it doesn't matter anymore. I can also say I have had a conversation with one manufacturer who seems to be gearing up to pursue medium format video. I won't be surprised if in two years,
we are discussing how FF is dead and Medium Format is the new standard. Seriously.
 
Mitch Gross said:
1 - The VAST majority of the market has requested full frame products from us. We are not going to ignore what clients want.
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I don't doubt it. As someone who used to work with sales and marketing leadership and teams specifically about strategy and strategic execution, the demand for FF sensors and lenses is truly a triumph of marketing, industrywide.
The demand is there for sure, I posit though that the demand did not evolve from the market itself at all, but from the slick marketing by the manufacturers and the "Lemming Effect" so prevalent in our industry.
It makes me wonder who set it in motion (RED with the Monstro in late 2017?) and who merely reacted?

For me personally, that was probably the number one or two factor why I bought a Fujifilm XT-3 as a B/gimbal camera instead of a Nikon Z6, Canon EOS R or A7 variant, specifically because Fuji has publicly and loudly declared that they will not follow the rest into FF.
Being able to use smaller, lighter and more compact Fuji XF lenses, and my Canon EF S lenses with adapters with the same DOF and FOV characteristics as my C200 played a significant role in my decision. But to each, their own.
 
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puredrifting said:
The demand is there for sure, I posit though that the demand did not evolve from the market itself at all, but from the slick marketing by the manufacturers and the "Lemming Effect" so prevalent in our industry.
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I'm pretty sure that you're spot on, since in the high end where the cost of the cameras isn't an issue most productions still work with Super 35 cameras.

It makes me wonder who set it in motion (RED with the Monstro in late 2017?) and who merely reacted?
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Was it Canon with its dSLR video lineup? I don't remember whether or not Red was the first cinema camera maker to introduce a larger format. Did the Alexa 65 predate the Monstro? I've lost track...
 
Panasonic is in such a tough position because they have this great camera, but IMO photographers will not buy it for photography, and videographers/cinematographers have [arguably] better and cheaper options for video. Then you have the a7RIV for $500 less, which is yet again another #1 seller.

Sony has been so successful with their mirrorless cameras [which stinks for me because they can take their time (and have) with releasing the a7SIII].
 
lol, you don't know how to navigate the system.

It's #3 in the 'digital cine cameras' section.
 
NorBro said:
Panasonic is in such a tough position because they have this great camera, but IMO photographers will not buy it for photography
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Which makes sense as there are far better choices if all you want to do is take photographs.


NorBro said:
and videographers/cinematographers have [arguably] better and cheaper options for video.
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Ok, I want to shoot Full Frame 5.9K or 4K 10-bit internally for an entire production day, with the option to shoot RAW footage for a few scenes. What's the best camera at the $4K price point ?
 
Alexa65 predates Monstro by three years.

As to B&H "cine camera" top seller list - FX9, S1H, ZCam E2, Pocket6K, Pocket4K, ZCam E2C, C200, UMP 4.6K G2, C100 MKII, A7 SII.

NorBro said:
lol, you don't know how to navigate the system.

It's #3 in the 'digital cine cameras' section.
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#2 now. Dingo just moved it up a slot.
 
TheDingo said:
Ok, I want to shoot Full Frame 5.9K or 4K 10-bit internally for an entire production day, with the option to shoot RAW footage for a few scenes. What's the best camera at the $4K price point ?
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You are what's called a "special order".
 
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