Panasonic Removable Lens Four Thirds HD AVCHD Camera

If my memory serves, Steve Mullen is the same tech poster to whom the new Casio's 1080/60i mode is a more appealing tool or even rivaling the filmic 5D Mark II FF35mm sensor size feature. Go figure. So, to each his own.
 
DavidNJ said:
You might not care but I do. I (and lots of other people) would say the 5DM2 records a significantly better image than an EX1/3, HPX300, HPX500, etc...Just a pita with no manual settings and tons of archaic workarounds.
Click to expand...
More than 113 years have done that.

EDIT -- I wrote 113 years but I didn't count its introduction in 1889 by Thomas Edison. So, it will be 113 plus 6 years as prototype ;-)
 
DavidNJ said:
You might not care but I do. I (and lots of other people) would say the 5DM2 records a significantly better image than an EX1/3, HPX300, HPX500, etc...Just a pita with no manual settings and tons of archaic workarounds.

You can buy what you want. I am looking for what I consider dramatic high production quality images. I can live without on camera sound because it is easily (and better) recorded off camera and matching is just a little work. I am not willing to make a $5-8k investment in the 5DM2 given its issues.

This camera has (still using has because we don't know about the HDMI) to deliver the goods. Panasonic is working on the skew...the HPX300 (and future HPX200/HMC160) buyers will demand it.

As far as GH-1 vs HPX300: if it had the 45Mb/s AVC of the Canon the GH-1 would probably take better pictures. You could certainly buy good glass for a lot less.

P.S.
The Canon upset my apple cart. Before I could make a commitment I have to know why. It has led to a rather strange learning curve of image quality measurement (those pesky MTF curves, JImage is my friend), interpolation algorithms (NEDI, Lanczos, etc.), Bayer sensor processing, compression algorithms, sensor design, etc. However, this is a restaurant not the fruit section of the supermarket, you have to pick a complete system. The biggest discovery, which the Canon cameras drove home, was the importance of the compression in recording.

P.P.S
If Barry had created a GH-1 forum, this would be 5-10 different threads.
Click to expand...

David has very valid points. The MKii is the real game changer around here. And we all want to get close to that kind of quality out of the VDSLR we want to purchase. The GH-1's features are tantalizing, and so if the quality doesn't rise beyond then it gets disheartening.

Now, David DID say that it should outperform the D90, and even that is a bit more tantalizing to me. Still, no MKii dominator. Perhaps with an additional 4K of expenses thrown in given a Live HDMI option... let's just hope someone is listening you know?
 
Kholi said:
David has very valid points. The MKii is the real game changer around here. And we all want to get close to that kind of quality out of the VDSLR we want to purchase. The GH-1's features are tantalizing, and so if the quality doesn't rise beyond then it gets disheartening.

Now, David DID say that it should outperform the D90, and even that is a bit more tantalizing to me. Still, no MKii dominator. Perhaps with an additional 4K of expenses thrown in given a Live HDMI option... let's just hope someone is listening you know?
Click to expand...

Welcome to the future. We are now where we (or at least I) wanted to be about three years ago. I find the most tantalizing thing is that the almost perfect camera is still not around the corner and we might have to wait one more year. I just don't want to wait anymore! :crybaby: If there is a firmware upgrade for the 5D as it is predictet I CERTAINLY WILL buy one. Even if there isn't I will get a 5D with a 80% probability. But it's just me...
 
One thing I've noticed in a few cameras with HDMI output--low end camcorders and point and shoot still cameras--is that some turn off the camera display when an HDMI output is connected. The Canon output the Liveview display. Another 'question'.

A note on the Casio. It records at up to 1200 frames/sec. Not 24, not 30, not 60...1200. Ok, a rather small frame (330x95). Also larger frames at 600 and 300 fps. 6Mp stills at 60fps. for 1 second.
 
The Japanese site says 720p60 can be recorder at 9, 13, and 17Mb/s, and that 1080p24 can be recorded at 17Mb/s in 2:3 pulldown (over 60i).
 
DavidNJ said:
The Japanese site says 720p60 can be recorder at 9, 13, and 17Mb/s, and that 1080p24 can be recorded at 17Mb/s in 2:3 pulldown (over 60i).
Click to expand...
Isn't that what folks where trying to tell you earlier? But thanks for the verification. That sounds much better than the 13.5 Mbps you mentioned earlier.

To compare....this is the same spec as the HF10 that was used to shoot the upcoming Hollywood movie "Crank 2."
 
I swear if it wasn't for misinformation 80% of this thread wouldnt exist. Some you guys must really like to hear yourself type.
 
It is MPEG-2 I-frame at a very high bandwidth...it may not conform to a 'standard', but it is the same DCT-based compression under the covers. It does take liberties with frame size. So yesterday.

AVC Intra 100 and Canons 45Mb/s H.264 really define the future...unless RED and SI2k's wavelet compressed RAW format is the real the future.
 
DavidNJ said:
It is MPEG-2 I-frame at a very high bandwidth...it may not conform to a 'standard', but it is the same DCT-based compression under the covers. It does take liberties with frame size. So yesterday.

AVC Intra 100 and Canons 45Mb/s H.264 really define the future...unless RED and SI2k's wavelet compressed RAW format is the real the future.
Click to expand...
I guess sort of like how AVCHD and AVC Intra are really the same thing but one is at a higher (50-100Mbps) and the other is at a lower (24Mbps and lower) bandwidth.
 
DVCProHD is no more MPEG than DV is. And I don't think AVC I and AVC HD are really the same thing.
But this is going OT, Can anyone answer my original question?
 
Break into 8x8 blocks with chroma subsampling (4:1:1, 4:2:0, or 4:2:2), do DCT transformation, quantization matrix, and runlength encoding. Basically the same. MPEG2 has long GOP. DVCProHD and HDV have odd spatial subsampling, probably just done for sensor compatibility.

H.264 or MPEG4 Part 10, much more descriptive include all the AVC stuff. AVCHD is a limited version of it that fit within HDV media constraints AND had more compressed modes that made sense when hard disks were 10-40Gb (and needed to last a vacation) and flash memory was 1-2GB. Now with hard disks 100+ and inexpensive fast flash memory readily available we have the Flash XDR doing 160Mb/s to straight CF. 4 years ago Panasonic needed to create a RAID 0 array of flash memory to get the speed and capacity they needed.

H.264 includes lots of changes that improve both compression AND the quality of the recorded image. However there are encoding schemes that lose less information. Cineform, RED, and the SI2k using Cineform use wavelet encoding. However, wavelets are very computationally intensive; RED reviews, the SI2k manual, and Cineform documentation for real time encoding all talk about the heat issues and CPU requirements.

"What will be the data rate for 25p over 50i?"

You may be on to something...back to the old DV PAL days. The UK specs say 25p over 50i. That would provide 25% less compression and no risk of 2:3 pulldown chroma issues (although I would think Panasonic would do an artifact free 2:3:3:2 pulldown.)

That does nothing for the skew. While Panasonic hit one out of the park with 2:3:3:2 with the DVX100/101, the HPX300/301 seems to have an issue here. So Panasonic may be behind with understanding CMOS skew. This is BIG for the HPX300 which appears to be a fanatastic camera but his head to head with the established EX3 and upcoming Canon models. One scan of the forums show most shooters are much more conscious of the skew then the compression.
 
Last edited:
DavidNJ said:
One scan of the forums show most shooters are much more conscious of the skew than the compression.
Click to expand...
Fully agreed. A shame.

But it has an easy explanation. They are populated by more geeks than artists going to the theatrical release.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top