GH3 Panasonic GH4 and Convergent Design Odyssey7Q

M

Mitch Gross

Veteran
Just wanted to note that with the addition of the YAGH accessory base to the GH4, the Odyssey7Q will be able to record 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 video in a high quality "popular codec".
 
So just to confirm Mitch, you can not record 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 out of the mini HDMI on the GH4, it's only possible through the YAGH interface? If this is true is there any format that can be recorded via the mini HDMI port on the GH4? For example 1080P 10-bit 4:2:2?
 
According to the micro HDMI specification you're correct, although there's been no official statement from Panasonic stating what is available via the micro HDMI. It's possible they crippled the pass through to justify the YAGH expansion.
 
Here's what you can and can't do GH4 wise:

You may or may not be able to output 10 bit or 8 bit 4:2:2 4K from the HDMI. (Still no definitive answer.)
You can't output 10 bit 4:2:2 HD from the HDMI and record anything to an internal card simultaneously. The internal recording is disabled in this scenario.
You can't record 10 bit or 8 bit 4:2:2 to an internal card at all.

You can output 8 bit 4:2:0 4K from the HDMI.
You can output 8 bit 4:2:2 and 10 bit 4:2:2 HD from the HDMI.
You can record 8 bit 4:2:0 to a card while outputting 8 bit 4:2:2 from the HDMI. In 10 bit, internal recording is disabled
You can output up to 1080 60P HD 10 bit 4:2:2 from the HDMI
 
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pulpfiction007 said:
Here's what you can and can't do:

You can't output 10 bit or 8 bit 4:2:2 4K from the HDMI.
You can't output 10 bit 4:2:2 HD from the HDMI and record anything to an internal card simultaneously. The internal recording is disabled in this scenario.
You can't record 10 bit or 8 bit 4:2:2 to an internal card at all.

You can output 8 bit 4:2:0 4K from the HDMI.
You can output 8 bit 4:2:2 and 10 bit 4:2:2 HD from the HDMI.
You can record 8 bit 4:2:0 to a card while outputting 8 bit 4:2:2 from the HDMI. In 10 bit, internal recording is disabled
You can output up to 1080 60P HD 10 bit 4:2:2 from the HDMI
Click to expand...

So then I guess the HDMI 2.0 spec is wrong or do you have proof from Panasonic GH4 documentation?

[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
[TR]
[TH]HDMI version[/TH]
[TH]1.0[/TH]
[TH]1.1[/TH]
[TH]1.2[/TH]
[TH]1.3[/TH]
[TH]1.4[/TH]
[TH]2.0[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Date initially released[/TD]
[TD]December 9, 2002[/TD]
[TD]May 20, 2004[/TD]
[TD]August 8, 2005[/TD]
[TD]June 22, 2006[/TD]
[TD]May 28, 2009[/TD]
[TD]September 4, 2013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Maximum clock rate (MHz)[/TD]
[TD]165[/TD]
[TD]165[/TD]
[TD]165[/TD]
[TD]340[/TD]
[TD]340[SUP][110][/SUP][/TD]
[TD]600[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Maximum TMDS throughput per channel (Gbit/s) including 8b/10b overhead[/TD]
[TD]1.65[/TD]
[TD]1.65[/TD]
[TD]1.65[/TD]
[TD]3.40[/TD]
[TD]3.40[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Maximum total TMDS throughput (Gbit/s) including 8b/10b overhead[/TD]
[TD]4.95[/TD]
[TD]4.95[/TD]
[TD]4.95[/TD]
[TD]10.2[/TD]
[TD]10.2[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Maximum throughput (Gbit/s) with 8b/10b overhead removed[/TD]
[TD]3.96[/TD]
[TD]3.96[/TD]
[TD]3.96[/TD]
[TD]8.16[/TD]
[TD]8.16[/TD]
[TD]14.4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Maximum audio throughput (Mbit/s)[/TD]
[TD]36.86[/TD]
[TD]36.86[/TD]
[TD]36.86[/TD]
[TD]36.86[/TD]
[TD]36.86[/TD]
[TD]49.152 (IEC61937 and DST audio)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Maximum color depth (bit/px)[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]48[SUP][a][/SUP][/TD]
[TD]48[/TD]
[TD]48[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Maximum consumer resolution over single link at 24-bit/px[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#cite_note-168[/SUP][/TD]
[TD]1920×1200p60[/TD]
[TD]1920×1200p60[/TD]
[TD]1920×1200p60[/TD]
[TD]2560×1600p75[/TD]
[TD]4096×2160p30[SUP][167][/SUP][/TD]
[TD]4096×2160p60

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
 
pulpfiction007 said:
Here's what you can and can't do:

You can't output 10 bit or 8 bit 4:2:2 4K from the HDMI.
Click to expand...

I have not seen anywhere that says this in defined terms. Can you provide your source? I have looked at all the documentation and nothing confirms that 4K 10bit can't be transmitted through HDMI.
 
No offense towards Andrew Reid, but this is not a reputable source of information cause he says so. From what I understand only Panasonic (and perhaps 3rd parties supporting them) know right now until the information is officially released.
 
Also direct from the Panasonic spec sheet. Read carefully and you will see, even in playback only mode...ONLY HD can be selected for 8 bit 4:2:2, 10 bit 4:2:2.
In monitor through..4K is automatically converted to 1080 HD.

4k questions 2.jpg
 
OK maybe I'm missing something, but if you read that carefully enough it states the monitor-through supports 4:2:2 10bit yet can't use the SD memory card (not important). There's nothing here saying that it cannot transmit signal in 4K or 1080P in 4:2:2/10bit other than also supporting EDID (enhanced display information data which the camera uses to identify the monitor connected to it).
 
killagram said:
OK maybe I'm missing something, but if you read that carefully enough it states the monitor-through supports 4:2:2 10bit yet can't use the SD memory card (not important). There's nothing here saying that it cannot transmit signal in 4K or 1080P in 4:2:2/10bit other than also supporting EDID (enhanced display information data which the camera uses to identify the monitor connected to it).
Click to expand...


You do have a point...I've just googled and I've seen several different answers and the Panasonic sheets never specifically say one way or the other, very vague on that point. Might be academic anyway, as I've yet to see a recorder that can do 4K 10 bit 4:2:2 4K through HDMI. The Odyssey in it's spec sheet says 8 bit 4:2:2 HD @30fps max over HDMI.

Changed my other post to reflect that it's not clear yet what the GH4's HDMI will output in 4K
 
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Thanks pulpfiction007. Who knows at this point it may be protected by the NDA that Panasonic had 3rd parties sign. Either way I'm sure everyone will know soon enough. I'm fairly certain the GH4 will be a killer camera either way, I just rather avoid spending an extra ~$2000 for the interface if possible.

PS - good looking out about the Odyssey 7Q only supporting HDMI 1.4 spec, yet not 4K. That is confirmed on their website and looks like it will need the SDI connections instead. This may be why they're enforcing the YAGH expansion but fortunately it doesn't ultimately mean the GH4 is incapable of transmitting such data.
 
killagram said:
So just to confirm Mitch, you can not record 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 out of the mini HDMI on the GH4, it's only possible through the YAGH interface? If this is true is there any format that can be recorded via the mini HDMI port on the GH4? For example 1080P 10-bit 4:2:2?
Click to expand...
Via HDMI we can record 1080p 422 10-bit up to 30p.
 
killagram said:
According to the micro HDMI specification you're correct, although there's been no official statement from Panasonic stating what is available via the micro HDMI. It's possible they crippled the pass through to justify the YAGH expansion.
Click to expand...

http://www.personal-view.com/downloads/GH4_Presentation.pdf

I believe the bottom of page 15 answers this question: "For [4K] or [C4K] video output, use an HDMI cable that has the HDMI logo on it, and that is described as "4K compatible"."

This is inside the 10bit 4:2:2 box, so it would lead the reader to understand that it is possible, with the GH4, to output 4K @ 10bit 4:2:2 to an external recorder. Problem is, no such recorder exists (at least using HDMI). One must rely on an HD-SDI compatible recorder like the KiPro QUAD and the Odyssey.
 
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I'm not sure where Odyssey is, or will be, insofar as incorporating ProRes. Suffice to say, it's a wonderful Codec, and offers a seamless workflow with BlackMagic cameras, as well as with our FS700 and the Atomos Samurai Blade. Panasonic, and others are clearly pushing the 4K envelope for use at pro and prosumer levels, and ProRes is a no-brainer. It's no accident that Blackmagic quickly dropped their price. I'm sure we'll being seeing further use of it, along with ProRes. What many of us also expect, it that the subscription rates applied to associated Codecs, will also die a slow death, as the industry moves forward and prices continue to drop. After all, how long will it make sense to pay more for a monitor than a camera? Super slow and quick frame rates are also sure to follow. Exciting and innovative times for sure.....
 
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LeavingTheCandy said:
Mitch,
We're dying here..when's that "popular compressed codec" available? Give those code-jockeys and beating if you must!!
Click to expand...
It is part of our February 2014 Firmware Update. There are less than two weeks left to the month of February in the year 2014, so that means it is coming pretty damn soon.
 
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