Thomas Smet
Veteran
Well this sucks. S5 IIx with the extra recording formats will not be out until the end of May.
Panasonic finally puts phase-detect AF on a mirrorless: the S5iiX
- Thread starter ahalpert
- Start date
Thomas Smet
Veteran
One other aspect of the S5 I’m not super crazy about is the lack of an optical low pass filter. I’m one of those that prefers video and photos shot with an optical low pass filter to reduce moire and aliasing. One of the things I do love about the R6. It has very little artifacts other than that from the video compression. I also love that sharpness and noise reduction can both be completely turned off on Canon. While the first R6 cannot shoot raw video I feel it’s gets more of an unaltered 4K video out of the box without too much added electronic processing or optical artifacts. I realize that’s not a big deal to everyone but I do like that about the R6. At least on the GH4 and GH5 there were typically a lot of complaints about it being too digital or video looking and not as cinematic or organic looking.
optical low pass filters seem to be a dying breed however but the Alexa has always had them for a good reason.
I despise image artifacts and always found it unacceptable that so many DSLR cameras were plagued by aliasing and moire. It’s a much less issue now with 4K video vs HD video but it’s still there. Even with photos I can see the rainbow color pattern on fine details more than I would like on cameras with no low pass filter. That’s why I consider over sampling important for 4K video. Having a low pass filter and removing all electronic sharpness does result in slightly softer video. That’s where the over sampling helps out.
optical low pass filters seem to be a dying breed however but the Alexa has always had them for a good reason.
I despise image artifacts and always found it unacceptable that so many DSLR cameras were plagued by aliasing and moire. It’s a much less issue now with 4K video vs HD video but it’s still there. Even with photos I can see the rainbow color pattern on fine details more than I would like on cameras with no low pass filter. That’s why I consider over sampling important for 4K video. Having a low pass filter and removing all electronic sharpness does result in slightly softer video. That’s where the over sampling helps out.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
This is what I mean. From DPReview between full sensor over samples S5 vs R6 mk2. S5 has no low pass filter and the R6 does.
Peter C.
Veteran
In regards to image stabilization. They were testing straight out of the camera. This is a bit unfair for Sony if the lens didn’t have IS and more importantly Sony largely relies on software using gyro data to stabilize in post. This is more time and work but if the camera applies a heavy amount of stabilization that introduces weird warping it can’t be removed.
There's my answer for why I preordered the S5II. I have enough cams with raw, this one doesn't have to.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Same for Canon. Much like the older GH5 it needs to combine both in body and lens OIS to get the best results.
With that said it's insanely impressive what the S5 II can do with no lens OIS. It's 100% pure sensor based stabilization and thats crazy. We pay for the lens OIS with every lens we buy. Thats a big disadvantage of how Sony and Canon do it right now. Eventually mirrorless should get to the point where it no longer needs to spend the money to add OIS to each lens. Plus a lot of lenses don't have OIS and it fragments the quality of the stabilization for the system. The lenses with great lens OIS perform much better than those that do not.
I have this problem on the R6. 35mm and 85mm primes have OIS and combined with the body they do fairly well. The 50mm without OIS sucks however and the in body is just not enough. It shouldn't be that way and the way the S5 II does it now every lens can have equal stabilization. At least thats the theory. I'm not sure yet how this new active IS works on the over $1,000 Panasonic zoom lenses with OIS. Also not sure how that works past 70mm for telephoto lenses like 200mm or 300mm. Most of the reviews seem to be focused on vlogging or walking with a wide angle type lens to test the stabilization.
Many of us shoot telephoto and would love to see how it works at 200-800mm.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
I really want the raw. I could pay for the raw add on for $200 but thats the price difference to get all the other stuff as well. You do get a lot more than just raw. You get the intra formats plus the ability to record ProRes and other formats directly to a SSD just like on the Pocket cameras. Assuming thats an advantage to anybody over just using SD cards. I guess it is if one wants to record ProRes directly from the camera.
Still I don't see the point of paying $200 for just the raw upgrade when the same amount will get that plus so much more in May.
Still not sold on it anyway. It's a nice camera but right now the R6 mk2 may tick off a few more boxes for me. Especially since I own a ton of RF lenses now. I'm kind of used to how Canon works now as well. Still some frustrations but I have learned to work around most of them. Or at least thats what I tell myself so I can fall asleep at night...
Lens OIS is good, gyro metadata can't do anything about intra-frame blur, sensor IBIS can cause warping at the corners on wide lenses. Software stabilization can help dampen/smooth camera movements but not fix intra-frame blurs. Tripods get kicked, monopods fall over :grin:.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Just watched a video companioning the S5 to the a7R V IS and the S5 was much better. To be fair I'm not sure if a proper lens with OIS was used in the test or not. Thats kind of the point however. The S5 can do better without a lens needing OIS.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
oh goodness let me find it again
Thomas Smet
Veteran
NorBro
Major Contributor
Oh, boy...if that's the only video I watched on a7R V's IS I would run as fast as I could.
Not sure what to say about that, but here's a counter (from Vong, not Wong), which you might also be interested in as it cover the 70-200mm range:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFhuoNHRUxQ
NorBro
Major Contributor
Actually also just saw the 70-200mm II was one of the lenses that had a FW update to improve IS with a7R V so it's likely those 2 (body and lens) are playing nicely together.
But the point about body-only being darn good and not relying on lens is very valid.
___
On a related note, as beautiful as the new Pannys are, it's going to take me years to mentally trust them with AF.
Even if they are ready right now, from day 1, I just wouldn't be able to commit, mentally.
But the point about body-only being darn good and not relying on lens is very valid.
___
On a related note, as beautiful as the new Pannys are, it's going to take me years to mentally trust them with AF.
Even if they are ready right now, from day 1, I just wouldn't be able to commit, mentally.
Samuel Dilworth
Well-known member
Optical stabilisation is good, but it can’t compensate for roll around the lens axis.
When you see handheld video shot with only lens IS, there is always jitter on the left and right frame edges and corners, where you see this roll motion the most. (The centre looks good because roll has hardly any effect there.)
This roll isn’t affected by focal length, so it doesn’t get any better (or worse) with wide-angle lenses.
IBIS, by contrast, allows the sensor to rotate in plane to correct this roll vibration.
Here’s a video that shows the jittery edges in almost every shot (not my video, but taken with a Canon IS lens on a Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K):
https://youtu.be/poHvD_uAH_E
Even the slow-motion shots are rough at the edges.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
Whats even better is a good ole tripod. Funny how many refuse to use the age old solutions many of us have used for decades. Not saying you do but there was a time when stabilization wasn't even a thing. In fact a lot of us turned it off when lenses did have it because it messed with panning.
Stabilization is an amazing tool to have but it will never take the place of a tripod.
Thomas Smet
Veteran
I'm not really impressed by that at all for the 70-200 test. That is about what the R6 looks like when moving. Even my adapted Tamron 70-200mm f2.8 G2 is better stabilized than that. Yes it helps but that constant swaying around to me is just as annoying. There is nothing natural about it.
Wider angles seem to work very well but thats also true on my R6 with the OIS 35mm. I shot an entire Luau in Hawaii handheld with that combo and my girlfriend even said to me where the hell was I hiding the tripod. I of course had a really smart response to that but we won't go there. On the R6 the ultra wide angles get really wobbly which sucks but I tend to use 35mm as my widest. I will say my 100-400 does however struggle at 400mm and shifts around a lot.
Both are stabilization optimized for photos. They stabilize enough to eliminate motion blur but for video they have too much sudden swaying back and forth. My Tamron G2 lenses have a hidden stabilization mode that can only be activated with the firmware upgrade device. The two modes sway a lot like this and are optimized for photos but not a continuous flow needed for video. With the adapter software a special 3rd mode can be turned on that flows better for video. Wondering if Canon and Sony do a similar thing for their stabilization at telephoto lengths. The 100-400 is rock solid taking photos but not so much for video.
NorBro
Major Contributor
The video was more about showing what is possible and then evaluating that 50mm IS test because that's NOT how it should look, ha.
I had a little obsession with IBIS for a hot second but it faded.
What the kids are doing today with gimbals and how the cameras now rotate while they walk/run is so Hollywood.
It's understood that sometimes you only need to stand somewhere and hold the camera and get a nice static shot, but if I'm doing anything creative, like for money, I want it to be next level stuff, not that 2013-type walking behind the back, following the subject type shot. So boring.
But again, the value of regular hand holding IBIS can't be ignored, it's very useful for people.
I had a little obsession with IBIS for a hot second but it faded.
What the kids are doing today with gimbals and how the cameras now rotate while they walk/run is so Hollywood.
It's understood that sometimes you only need to stand somewhere and hold the camera and get a nice static shot, but if I'm doing anything creative, like for money, I want it to be next level stuff, not that 2013-type walking behind the back, following the subject type shot. So boring.
But again, the value of regular hand holding IBIS can't be ignored, it's very useful for people.