Panasonic finally puts phase-detect AF on a mirrorless: the S5iiX

NorBro said:
But again, the value of regular hand holding IBIS can't be ignored, it's very useful for people.
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Documentary involves getting quickly into position and being unobtrusive. IBIS helps to get hand hold shots that look like you used a tripod. You can grab broll faster. So it's a big help. Often what matters most is getting the shot.
 
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Definitely could agree but part of the documentary look should also be moving, at least to me.

I grew up loving that shoulder cam operation look with slow creeps or crashes (not too much like The Office, much less, and used suitably).
 
Realistically it's looking like maybe a mid June to even July timeframe to get my hands on a S5 IIX. I would rather spend the extra $200 and get all the possible features vs regretting it later. By the time I pay for that and the Sigma adapter I'm looking at roughly the exact same price as the R6 mk2 which I can get today.

So really it's going to come down to 14 stops of DR vs 12 stops. 21ms shutter vs 15ms shutter. 4k60 s35mm crop vs 4k60 full sensor. external raw 12bit vs external raw 10bit. ok skin tones vs very pleasing skin tones. Of course buying all new mirrorless lenses vs using all my existing RF lenses.

In the end it's really a wash. Whats exciting is just how good of cameras we have now across the board. The competition is now very tight which will hopefully force more innovation. Each system has some minor advantages and disadvantages but nothing thats really a show stopper. I can't really go wrong either way which is good and bad. It's really hard to now make a choice since we have so many really good options. A lot will now come down to just brand loyalty and desiring that one systems slight advantage. Canon for the full sensor better rolling shutter 4k60 or Panasonic for the better dynamic range.

The wise choice for me might be to wait until June or July and decide at that point between the R6 mk2 and S5 IIx. In the meantime however I'm stuck with a R6 that can potentially overheat and has a 30 minute record limit. I still think it's a great camera but at some point this stuff is going to bite me in the butt. The external raw is only really the gravy for me. A nice potential option if needed in the future. To me the bigger deal was getting away from overheating 4k24, 30 minute record limit, better dial options for video, built in false color and much better rolling shutter for video and photos and a really nice 40fps burst mode for photos. It is 14bit for mechanical shutter photos and the R6 is the best photo camera I have ever used. Despite some annoying flaws it's also the best video camera I have ever used in terms of over sampled 4k 10bit 4:2:2 quality. Its HDR PQ mode is stunning for HDR projects and watching on HDR displays. I have two XDR displays set to a constant 1000 nits, a Samsung 50" with a peak of 1400 nits and a 65" Vizio with a peak of 500 nits but with 83% rec2020 color. My house is filled with HDR displays and the HDR PQ is better than any other systems out of the box HLG. So in terms of shooting HDR to watch HDR on a HDR TV with zero effort the Canon is really hard to beat right now. It's as easy as shooting a standard 8bit video profile and watching on a TV straight from the camera. At its best exposure I get a peak of 750 nits. Not the optimal standard of 1000 nits or higher but still a very respectable form of almost zero effort HDR. Night and day difference to a SDR video. It's also significantly less noise than clog3 making it almost zero effort as well since I can easily shoot ISO 6400 or 12800 and not need any NR at all. Converting clog3 to HDR does give me even more nits of output but then I have to deal with the added noise. Shooting over is great to get rid of the noise but then that clips the potential nits I can get out of the range defeating the purpose.

The S5 means I would likely have to handle Vlog to HDR and maybe still need NR in post. I have never been a fan of in camera Panasonic HLG. Maybe it's better now but I find HLG to be a horrible HDR format and too limiting. So I might get better shadow detail fro the S5 and more DR but it will likely also mean more effort for me to get to the same place as I get on the R6 in terms of HDR. The added DR will likely get me even further but since I tend to master around 1000 nits sustained I don't really need more right now. The R6 can already do that albeit with shadows that may not be as clean. I really have to see R6 and S5 footage compared for a HDR workflow to know which one will be best for me. The S5 would really need to pull ahead of the R6 to justify the addd effort for me right now.
 
NorBro said:
Definitely could agree but part of the documentary look should also be moving, at least to me.

I grew up loving that shoulder cam operation look with slow creeps or crashes (not too much like The Office, much less, and used suitably).
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Yeah but you need about 5:1 ratio of .5-1 sec static (or ish) shots in between scenes & the longer b-roll you describe (and I love) with movement. Panasonic's IBIS & video tools make it simpler to grab these shots on a whim.
 
I would definitely use it but you don't really need anything; anyone can film their own documentary however they'd like.

Almost my entire career I've spent convincing myself I need features but the reality is no one else would care or even notice...it's just to make my own brain feel better about it.

Like critically-thinking about it...yes, for sure, if you want to hold a stills camera that shoots video with your hands in mid-air and have very stable, almost perfectly still tripod-like shots then great IBIS is the answer, perhaps the only answer.

But that's a given...it's like saying I want a computer to focus for me when using a large sensor.
 
Every time I watch a review video I change my mind between s5ii, a7IV, and fx30. I now can see myself buying the S5 because I like the video tools like Waveform and Shutter Angle. Sigma offers an affordable 24-70 2.8 L mount that I could shoot everything on. For Sony there are more affordable lens choices and it's a more mature camera. The FX30 everything is small and more affordable. You lose a little DR and low light performance.
 
I watched a YT video comparison between the A7IV & S5 II and the images were very close in nature. Almost like they had the same sensor at times but the A7IV had more detail and a little better color accuracy. No doubt the Panasonic has better video tools. Both are great hybrid cameras and would create beautiful images in the right hands. If the S5 II was out during the A7IV launch it would have been quite a throwdown!
 
I'll drop this note in here (because I remember when the CES was about the consumer electronics)

Lidar companies dominated the show floor in West Hall (where most of the automotive tech was located). Everywhere I turned there was another lidar company, including Hesai, Innovusion, Luminar and Ouster (to name a few). My lingering hot take: All of these companies cannot survive.
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https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/car-tech-evs-dominated-ces-174008534.html

These systems are for car safety/autonomous driving but they're, obviously, used for auto focus in many a smartphone as well. DJI has a LiDAR based AF system for its gymbals as well. The photo-video world is using mostly proprietary on-sensor AF. For now.
 
I might get a S5 II instead of the R6 mk2 just because of the stupid lack of manual white balance on Canon. If there is one single thing that annoys me about video on Canon thats the archaic way to manual white balance. I miss having a Panasonic camera or just about any other camera under the sun where I can just point at white and boom.

I get the advantage to doing it this way for photos but it sucks for video. So stupid.
 
lol, we all have quirks because that's what makes the best of us, and I have MANY, but that might be the first lost sale because of the WB process, especially if it's the only reason.
 
I'm with you on the Canon white balance and their silly micro HDMI but there are lots of other reasons to jump ship for me... instead of updating Canon R6 with R6ii I'm going to go for the stonking deal with the S5ii and 20-60 and 50mm lenses and use EF lenses with sigma adaptor.
The colour science with vlog I think is lovely and makes good use of that great DR, similar to clog2 and I think nicer to grade than slog. I find clog3 on the R6 a bit limiting

The only RF lens I have is the 16mm 2.8 which is a great little lens but all kinds of edge wobble with Canon and their not so great IBIS. The 20-60mm on the Panny with its superior IBIS will have none of the weirdness and is plenty wide for me.

The 20-60 and 50mm will be great for most AF needs and my EF lenses will be fine with the Sigma adaptor.

Looked at the A74 but the Sony A7 series has always left me a bit cold, strange eegonomics and not fun to use and colour never wows me. The S5 felt good in the hand and a bit better built than the R6, am excited about getting the S5ii, ticks all the boxes for me
 
Thomas Smet said:
I might get a S5 II instead of the R6 mk2 just because of the stupid lack of manual white balance on Canon. If there is one single thing that annoys me about video on Canon thats the archaic way to manual white balance. I miss having a Panasonic camera or just about any other camera under the sun where I can just point at white and boom.

I get the advantage to doing it this way for photos but it sucks for video. So stupid.
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It's funny I had the same complaint when I got the 70d that was released 10 years ago 2013 and Canon still hasn't fixed it but that's probably an intentional choice to differentiate it from it's video centric lines, and the micro HDMI for the same reason. The 3rd party lock out of their R lenses was the last straw.
 
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If this camera will be able to hold a face in focus for a few minutes without going crazy, it's a perfect camera...and I don't know how that would work in their electronics economic system.

Maybe as some are saying they are letting it be now because a lot of users are already in too deep with Sony and Canon, but the Panny would now be strong in every area of a system, the ultimate powerhouse in a small package.
 
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This is one of the first reviews to actually show AF deficiencies for Panasonic @11:25 The test is someone walks in front of the subject. For me this wouldn't be a issue for interviews but if I'm trying to follow a lead dancer. The AF is still good just not as good as Sony. This also shows how you set up the test you can hide or illuminate deficiencies. Because most of the other tests I've seen is one subject moving around. I still think the Panasonic has other areas where it shines like IBS. I was surprised at the color tests, faces looked too warm for Sony but I didn't like cool tint in Panasonic's shadows.

 
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Sony A7RV has a programmable auto focus. If someone is shooting a scene with multiple faces and bodies, he could program the preferred face/body and that's where the camera will quit switching.
 
Peter C. said:
This is one of the first reviews to actually show AF deficiencies for Panasonic @11:25 The test is someone walks in front of the subject. For me this wouldn't be a issue for interviews but if I'm trying to follow a lead dancer. The AF is still good just not as good as Sony. This also shows how you set up the test you can hide or illuminate deficiencies. Because most of the other tests I've seen is one subject moving around. I still think the Panasonic has other areas where it shines like IBS. I was surprised at the color tests, faces looked too warm for Sony but I didn't like cool tint in Panasonic's shadows.

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The tests themselves are kind of hilarious. I didn't watch it all the way from the beginning- did they show the focus settings there? Those can make a big difference. Also, does Panasonic have touch tracking where you tap a person or object and it will try to keep focus on that in particular?

BTW I know you mentioned the fx30 - do you know if it has fine tunable shutter speed for defeating LED flicker? My a7siii cannot do that and it's a frequent pain. Whereas my a7iv can. Panasonic cameras have all done this for years now, including the new one.
 
ahalpert said:
The tests themselves are kind of hilarious. I didn't watch it all the way from the beginning- did they show the focus settings there? Those can make a big difference. Also, does Panasonic have touch tracking where you tap a person or object and it will try to keep focus on that in particular?

BTW I know you mentioned the fx30 - do you know if it has fine tunable shutter speed for defeating LED flicker? My a7siii cannot do that and it's a frequent pain. Whereas my a7iv can. Panasonic cameras have all done this for years now, including the new one.
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I don't think the fx30 has it and I thought the a7iv doesn't have an adjustment just an anti flicker setting in the menu. I'm not sure what that exactly does? I don't do as much event work but I still remember a wedding reception that had terrible flicker and there wasn't a dam thing I could do. LED lights on a dimmer is very common for reception halls.

The AF test was funny but it actually is useful because in event work people commonly walk in front of you and there is more than one person in the frame.
 
Peter C. said:
I don't think the fx30 has it and I thought the a7iv doesn't have an adjustment just an anti flicker setting in the menu. I'm not sure what that exactly does? I don't do as much event work but I still remember a wedding reception that had terrible flicker and there wasn't a dam thing I could do. LED lights on a dimmer is very common for reception halls.

The AF test was funny but it actually is useful because in event work people commonly walk in front of you and there is more than one person in the frame.
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Yes, it's a useful test for sure. The a7iv has a setting, I think it's called just variable shutter speed but I don't remember. It lets you adjust the shutter speed in tenths of a second (1/59.9, 1/59.8 etc) until you get in sync with the LED refresh rate. On Panasonic it's called synchro scan and I saw it in the s5ii menus online. I have problems with LED refresh rates at weddings and also in art galleries. It can happen any time you're using location lights. So, sometimes I have to switch from the a7siii to the a7iv when I really don't want to.
 
ahalpert said:
BTW I know you mentioned the fx30 - do you know if it has fine tunable shutter speed for defeating LED flicker? My a7siii cannot do that and it's a frequent pain. Whereas my a7iv can. Panasonic cameras have all done this for years now, including the new one.
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No shutter speed, but the FX30 does have a flicker reduction setting:

https://twitter.com/imPatrickT/status/1603105046928838657?s=20&t=Oo-bnq_GqTUUZTxqLwrWsw

https://twitter.com/imPatrickT/status/1603111505096237057?s=20&t=Oo-bnq_GqTUUZTxqLwrWsw
 
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