Panasonic DMP-BD45 & Hacked GH1 footage

Blackout

Blackout

Veteran
Hey Guys,

I picked up a Panasonic DMP-BD45 for $95 at B&H for a client during a 48 hour film fest I was doing to check playback and the client had no way to play blu-ray yet.

In any case it worked out FANTASTIC for playback and checking focus. Popped the card out and was stunned at just how gorgeous the GH13 footage looked and played right off the card. I might be crazy but it really looked better than playing straight out of the camera to me, and the response time was phenomenal as was the price! We had a huge 60' monitor hooked up and everyone on the set was absolutely stunned.

I wanted to leave the raw footage for the client to look over takes, so I quickly burned it to a blu-ray disc, but it would not play. I was under the assumption that I could just burn the files and that I did NOT have to author an actual blu-ray structure with this machine. The blu-ray opened as a regular data disk and had all the files on it on a Win 7 64 bit laptop, but when inserted into the bd-45 it did not see anything.

I did not burn the entire directory structure from the card... is it needed, or do you actually have to 'author' a blu-ray disc?

The client was primarily mac based, and could not BELIEVE that he could not get a mac with a blu-ray drive installed on ANY mac system. He ordered the Dell XPS 15 with the new jbl speakers and 1920 x 1080 screen.

Anyway.... I know a bunch of you use these players for focus check and it was definitely way better then playing right off of the camera (no worry of someone tripping on a 25 foot hdmi cable and of breaking the camera by constant plugging / unplugging) but I was a little bummed that it didn't play the blu-ray. I am hoping that I just need to burn the entire card structure... with the directories in tact, and not have to author menus.

PS: I was unhappy with the look of printing on the new optical quantum waterproof glossy bd-r discs. They were no where close to the quality level of verbatim "aquajet" discs - the ultimate in any burnable printable surface.

Anyone?

Thanks

- Blackout
 
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I burn Bluray off the EDIUS timeline. Although EDIUS can handle native 60mbps H264 straight off the SD card out of the GH13...what gets burned to the Bluray must be compliant in terms of the bitrate that BR can handle. So I render it as AVCHD 1920 x 1080 50i (PAL land) @ 17mbps. It could probably handle a higher bit rate, but the image quality on a 52 inch HD panel is outstanding. As long as the "print to file" that's rendered and burned to the BR disc is compliant it doesn't need formal authoring or menu structures etc to play well.
 
Well it acted as if there was "nothing on the disc".... I am wondering if it would act that way if I copied the entire card structure with BDSM and STREAM directories...

the same disc inserted into a ps3 DID play, and it was viewable on laptops as well. At first I had thought it was a bad dud disc as I had not tried the optical quantum brand before and I used the cheapy windows 7 burning tool not even Nero or TMPGEnc. I was in a rush.

I am looking for a "quick" way to just hand over files for someone to view on a blu-ray player without having to author a disc in an authoring program... I can do that in Encore CS5 or TMPGEnc Authoring.... but then I have to design menus and all that... I figured the Panasonic blu-ray player might act like the ps3 and just see the files and let you select and play them. I can play high bitrate native gh13 hack files on the ps3 off of DVDs or dvd-dl just fine even at 50 mbits!
 
so you are just dropping the files onto the disc and trying to play them like that in a BR player? That won't work, you'd have to author it into BR structure to get it to play. Windows has an option to burn either as a "playable" disc or as a "data" disc.

Any machine that is computer based, I.E., laptop or PS3, might have an autoplay feature whereas a player is pretty dumb, it will only look for the BR structure. I had the same exact problem with DVD authoring. Stuff would play in computers but not on actual DVD players.
 
Svart said:
so you are just dropping the files onto the disc and trying to play them like that in a BR player? That won't work, you'd have to author it into BR structure to get it to play. Windows has an option to burn either as a "playable" disc or as a "data" disc.

Any machine that is computer based, I.E., laptop or PS3, might have an autoplay feature whereas a player is pretty dumb, it will only look for the BR structure. I had the same exact problem with DVD authoring. Stuff would play in computers but not on actual DVD players.
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Ahhhh ok... well I guess this answers my question then. I have to author. I think I have been so spoiled by Win 7 and ps3 that I just assumed the Panasonic blu-ray player would play files right off a data disc since it plays files right off an sd card.

I mean this isn't HORRIBLE news... I have authored Blu-Ray discs. Encore is pretty cool for that, I just figured I didn't have to. Does the Win 7 burner author playable blu-ray? I haven't even attempted that. That might be an easy fast solution for 'digital dailies' for clients who are not too computer savvy.
 
Blackout said:
Ahhhh ok... well I guess this answers my question then. I have to author. I think I have been so spoiled by Win 7 and ps3 that I just assumed the Panasonic blu-ray player would play files right off a data disc since it plays files right off an sd card.

I mean this isn't HORRIBLE news... I have authored Blu-Ray discs. Encore is pretty cool for that, I just figured I didn't have to. Does the Win 7 burner author playable blu-ray? I haven't even attempted that. That might be an easy fast solution for 'digital dailies' for clients who are not too computer savvy.
Click to expand...

I'll have to look, but one thing is that the SDHC media has a "PRIVATE" directory at top, and then a couple of levels down there's a BDMV directory, which has several subdirectories including the MTS streams, which I think has a 'bluray' like structure. I don't have a bluray writer to check to see if just copying from BDMV down would give you a 'playable' Bluray. The 'official' extension for Bluray streams at the moment is .M2TS, to indicate Mpeg-2 Transtport Stream is being used as the container. The file extension used in the SDHC is .MTS. So that may not work... don't know if just changing the file extension would work...

Here's a wiki article on the topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.m2ts
 
I've done some blu-ray on DVD (cheaper, print on demand) projects, and some blu-ray players just have extra features. One of those features is to play files out of the camera. Then there are ones that are "AVCHD" players, which will play a a blu-ray burned onto a DVD in H264.
Bottom line: if it does NOT say AVCHD on the player, you are most likely out of luck. If you want to play OOC, that may or may not be a subfeature of an AVCHD branded player.
Some of them will take the card right out of the camera, and that is the easiest, of course.
Don't worry--unlike DVDs, ppl with Blu-Ray players are used to videos not playing :)
So I think more and more players will have this feature, but you can't count on it.
So you are better off authoring a basic structure if you want wider compatibility, I was able to do it without retranscoding, but ymmv.
 
Why not just copy the files to another SD card and charge them for the card (if you have to) so they can keep it? Certainly would be more compatible with a PC?Mac and the card is reusable once they are done looking at those files so it's not like they need a new SD card each time. If they don't have a Panasonic Blu-ray player to view the files, just buy them one if you're getting paid enough. Even wedding videographers use that technique to "up sell" their clients to a higher end wedding video package.

Randy
 
Cavemandude said:
Why not just copy the files to another SD card and charge them for the card (if you have to) so they can keep it? Certainly would be more compatible with a PC?Mac and the card is reusable once they are done looking at those files so it's not like they need a new SD card each time. If they don't have a Panasonic Blu-ray player to view the files, just buy them one if you're getting paid enough. Even wedding videographers use that technique to "up sell" their clients to a higher end wedding video package.

Randy
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It just seems silly that the panasonic player plays the files fine off the card, and it wouldn't play them off the disc.... I use 32 gig cards now so it would be a hassle to have to leave the clients with a $60 card when I can give them a $1 blu-ray.... I am going to do another test and drop the entire file structure on the disc qnd see if it plays... I bet it will.
 
I wouldn't leave the "original file" 32GB card with the client, I would buy "client cards" if you are charging normal rates. The $60 SD card is reusable, the Blu-ray disc isn't. Of course, if you aren't filling up the 32GB card you could use smaller cheaper SD cards to copy the files to. Didn't you say this client just ordered a new Dell laptop just to play Bu-ray discs? Panasonic also makes portable Blu-ray LCD players with an SD slot to play AVCHD video.

Just think of all the time you've spent trying to figure this out when you could have simply given the client an SD card "copy" to play on the Panasonic player. $60 is not much to quickly solve a problem for a client.

The other advantage of the SD card is that the client is looking at the original video file and not a recompressed version on a Blu-ray disc.

Randy
 
Cavemandude said:
I wouldn't leave the "original file" 32GB card with the client, I would buy "client cards" if you are charging normal rates. The $60 SD card is reusable, the Blu-ray disc isn't. Of course, if you aren't filling up the 32GB card you could use smaller cheaper SD cards to copy the files to. Didn't you say this client just ordered a new Dell laptop just to play Bu-ray discs? Panasonic also makes portable Blu-ray LCD players with an SD slot to play AVCHD video.

Just think of all the time you've spent trying to figure this out when you could have simply given the client an SD card "copy" to play on the Panasonic player. $60 is not much to quickly solve a problem for a client.

The other advantage of the SD card is that the client is looking at the original video file and not a recompressed version on a Blu-ray disc.

Randy
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Depends on the client.

Also what I am saying is I just drop the files onto the blu-ray disc for them to check dailies as I work on edits. I do a lot of package deals where I shoot/edit/author/youtube dvd / blu-ray encode and packaging. When I am done shooting for the day, I sometimes won't have time to get to the edit for a month as I am booked up for other shoots - but the client is itchy and wants to see something while they wait.

If I just copy and drop the original card onto a blu-ray disc it's quick and easy to shoot it off to them in the mail and it's under $3 for the whole process AND it IS the original .mts files, NOT recompressed! It looks at first glance like the bd-45 would do it as it looked like it was looking for the directory on a disc like how the ps3 is a "media player". I haven't had time yet but I will report on my findings of copying the entire card structure to a blu-ray and seeing if THEN the panny blu-ray will see it.

If anyone has time before me (I'm crazy busy lately)... please try it and let me know if it works.
 
Why not just burn a regular Blu-Ray? As long as your footage will fit onto the disc, it should not recompress the video (although you might have to recompress the audio to AC3 to be BD compatible). BluRay players should play AVCHD with no trouble...it just has to be a standard Blu-Ray format...not a data disc.

I have a Panasonic DMP-BD30. Of course, it plays the GH1 SDHC cards just fine, but here's the deal with Blu-Ray discs on it:

1. It will not recognize GH1 video files (just the video files) burned to a BD "data" disc using Nero Burning ROM UDF writer.
2. It will not recognize GH1 video files if I burn the entire file structure (evertthing on the card) to a BD "data" disc using Nero Burning ROM UDF writer.
3. Sony DVD Architect does not recompress the VIDEO in AVC files when burned as a BluRay movie disc complete with menu/thumbails. Takes less than 3 seconds to author (drag/drop the video files), and very little time to render the AC3 audio. Video quality is stunning when watched on the TV. The whole process is like two mouse clicks. ;) As a bonus, your client can use the thumbnails to choose the scene they want.

Hopefully that will save you from wasting anymore expensive BD blanks. I sacrificed three for ya...I'm off today and bored! ;) Good luck!
 
Ahhhh.. well, I give clients 1 - a blu-ray with just the exact data files as backups, and I recommend they use windows 7 vs mac.
But to 'see' the footage if they only have a blu-ray, dvd architect might be the answer.. I have never messed with it.. is it a separate program or is it in vegas somewhere?
 
So you are telling you Mac-based clients to drop $1000+ on a new PC laptop with a Blu-ray drive just so they can access your $1 Blu-ray backup instead of just having them buy a $60 32GB SD card that would easily work on their existing Mac and Panasonic Blu-ray DVD player instead, correct?

Randy
 
Blackout said:
....But to 'see' the footage if they only have a blu-ray, dvd architect might be the answer.. I have never messed with it.. is it a separate program or is it in vegas somewhere?
Click to expand...

It typically comes bundled with Vegas Pro, but I don't think you should have to drop any cash just to quickly author Blu-Ray these days...seems like any authoring program would do it. If yours doesn't, maybe check out the link gurivan posted...that looks really cool! DVD Architect is pretty much all I've used for the past few years, and there's a lot you can do in it without opening your NLE.

I'm not in the movie-making business, mostly just wedding videos, but my vote does go to giving your clients a $1 authored BD-R that you KNOW they can play, versus buying them an expensive SDHC card and telling them they need to buy a Panny Blu-Ray player or expect them to be able to play the SDHC on their computer. Same for giving them a data BD-R. It doesn't take a real computer wiz to make those other methods work, I'm sure, but from my experience in dealing with so many customers...you have to make your deliveries "foolproof". :D An authored BD-R is about as foolproof as it gets, should take almost no effort/time, and at an absolute minimal cost to your project budget. Just my $0.02.
 
swyzlstyx said:
I'm not in the movie-making business, mostly just wedding videos
Click to expand...

For wedding video clients, a Blu-ray disc is an obvious choice since you are giving them a finished product not the raw video or dailies to look at.

They also already had the Panasonic Blu-ray player with an SD card slot and they couldn't play a Blu-ray disc with their Mac. An SD card is certainly going to be playable on more PC's and Mac's since the majority don't have Blu-ray drives and are more likely have an SD slot.

You can also use Cybervision PowerDirector to make authored AVCHD SD cards which act just like an authored DVD with menus and everything. Canopus 6 does the same thing.

Randy
 
Although I may get a DMP-BD45, I found out the LG-BD555 network blu-ray player ( around $75-99) plays GH1 camera files from disc or USB stick, if the suffix is changed from .MTS to .MPEG : tested with Blackout's rooftop B-roll, played flawlessly.
 
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Cavemandude said:
So you are telling you Mac-based clients to drop $1000+ on a new PC laptop with a Blu-ray drive just so they can access your $1 Blu-ray backup instead of just having them buy a $60 32GB SD card that would easily work on their existing Mac and Panasonic Blu-ray DVD player instead, correct?

Randy
Click to expand...

No... you are not understanding me Cave.... Almost all clients have blu-ray now, or you can give them a drive or include it in the price CHEAP. My masters for them are on blu-ray... one authored playable one, and then one data one with the files as backup. I wouldn't trust just leaving the files on a card those cards die faster than the discs.

If they want to do further EDITING themselves, and don't want to pay me for an editing package, I recommend PCs because let's face it - mac is not avchd nor blu-ray friendly
and it's a pain to get GH1 footage into the mac you HAVE to transcode which is fine for a working pro but non pro clients will say...

"IT DOESN'T WORK IT DOESN'T PLAY I CAN'T SEE IT!"

Clients want and demand blu-ray now unless I am doing high high end broadcast TV or film stuff then they get a hard drive.

No offense to you 'mac' guys, and call me 'wacky' but I think apple is insane to have the world's supposedly 'best' editing computer not support the world's latest and best distribution format - blu-ray.

Apple doesn't want to because they got in a tiffy with sony and sony doesn't want them having blu-ray and apple doesn't want people owning physical media - but only renting it from their god damn over bloated itunes store.
I am a fan boy of neither company but I side with sony on this one. I want to own and have physical ways to play my media - and blu-ray is solid at 50 gigs. All the apple streams off the i-store are heavily compressed and do not come close to blu-ray quality. They are netflix stream quality at best..... which is.. ok... but no where near pro.
 
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jleo said:
Although I may get a DMP-BD45, I found out the LG-BD555 network blu-ray player ( around $75-99) plays GH1 camera files from disc or USB stick, if the suffix is changed from .MTS to .MPEG : tested with Blackout's rooftop B-roll, played flawlessly.
Click to expand...

Ahhhh.. ok THIS was the magic gem I was looking for. Thank you.

+42
 
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