EVA1: Panasonic AU-EVA1! Announcement and latest updates

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Sttratos said:
It could only look like the Varicam if it had the same sensor. Otherwise the problem lies on the extension of this very much like you talk about.
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Not true at all. Stop putting so much emphasis on the sensor as if it is some sort of magical device. It is fully possible for a company to get the same image from two different sensors if they know what they are doing and if they make that their goal. A sensor is just a tool that converts light to 1's and 0's. It isn't rocket science to figure out how to remap any slight differences or to make sure the color filter performs exactly the same.

Panasonic is a pretty conservative company and they typically don't exaggerate their product claims. If they say the look is the same as the Varicam there is a good chance it in fact is. The only thing that isn't the same is the Dual ISO which Mitch and Panasonic have been up front about from day 1.
 
Its really simple. This camera will be great, what the films released sofar tell you is that a bunch of DPs got a camera handed to them they had no experience with they all shot something and the results look good- thats great news. It will only get better when the enduser gets to know it better. it does 4K 10 bit 422!!! It has Timecode HELLO!!! it will just cost little more than 7K AND it will have RAW 5.7K later. It comes from the makers of Varicam!!!

Relax its all good.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Not true at all. Stop putting so much emphasis on the sensor as if it is some sort of magical device. It is fully possible for a company to get the same image from two different sensors if they know what they are doing and if they make that their goal. A sensor is just a tool that converts light to 1's and 0's. It isn't rocket science to figure out how to remap any slight differences or to make sure the color filter performs exactly the same.
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Yeah but to be fair, it's also not exactly that binary. A 5.7k sensor is very different from a 4k sensor. The photosites are a different size. Which means to achieve the same dynamic range and lowlight, the digital image processing is different. It has to be. Image characteristics such as detail are part of the whole aesthetic. Image pipelines are a messy, complicated things with a million variables, and changing a single variable can have massive impacts.

But I hear what you are saying - that whole process has a LOT more to it than a sensor. The sensor is one part of a much greater story.
 
Shooting with the LT for a year now, and being used to its image in almost any condition or grade, I'm curious to see more EVA1 footages because so far I don't see the richness (especially the skins) and the smoothness that amazed me with the LT initially. Though, even if it's doesn't have the Varicam look, it seems to be a remarkable camera at this price range. We'll see how close it is with the released product.
 
filmguy123 said:
Does it? I haven't been tracking outside of DVXuser at all so that may be spot on.

Legitimately wonder - is the larger internet and community outside here discussing the camera nearly as much as us, or are we in a bit of an echo chamber?
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You'll see posts about it on BMCuser and REDuser, but members from both parties are mainly interested in those companies.

Maybe some more comments @ NoFilmSchool or EOSHD...the news sites, etc.

I'm assuming this is the main place though.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Thats because the Canon users will accept just about anything with the Canon name on it. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)
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I'm no Canon fan. But I think another reason is the images look generally good. Even if the cameras are crippled or outdated in features or lacking features or whatever you want to call it.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Not true at all. Stop putting so much emphasis on the sensor as if it is some sort of magical device. It is fully possible for a company to get the same image from two different sensors if they know what they are doing and if they make that their goal. A sensor is just a tool that converts light to 1's and 0's. It isn't rocket science to figure out how to remap any slight differences or to make sure the color filter performs exactly the same.
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Ok. More down votes coming my way from the thin skinned people who can't take criticism about their cameras.

But if what you say is true, how come nobody could replicate the Alexa look yet? Even though it's clear that everybody both users and companies want to. Sony tried releasing LUTs for that without any success. Netflix has a LUT to try to make the Varicam look like the Alexa, without success. Users from different cameras have tried without success etc. It will only look 100% like the Varicam if it has the Varicam sensor. If it won't look 100% like it then it's a moot point bragging it will look like it. My point all along.
 
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Alex Roz said:
Shooting with the LT for a year now, and being used to its image in almost any condition or grade, I'm curious to see more EVA1 footages because so far I don't see the richness (especially the skins) and the smoothness that amazed me with the LT initially. Though, even if it's doesn't have the Varicam look, it seems to be a remarkable camera at this price range. We'll see how close it is with the released product.
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filmguy123 said:
this, for me
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I third this. The footage to me so far doesn't really look like Varicam. It looks more like a 35mm version of the DVX200 than Varicam to me.
 
Someone must have said this already but...the LT is $14,500. If the EVA1 looked like it, why would anyone buy the LT? Like if you gave the EVA1 the LT look but not include other features, I think most people would be like, "Who cares...all I need is the look, those colors, those skin tones".

No disrespect to Mitch or Panasonic or anyone else, but I just don't see how and why this camera would look like a Varicam. I agree that it looks like a suped-up DVX200...so far.
 
Exactly if you want a Varicam LT look buy a Varicam LT same goes to Arri- they are for sale.
Still this is an extremely well specked camera for a very competitive price.

NorBro said:
Someone must have said this already but...the LT is $14,500. If the EVA1 looked like it, why would anyone buy the LT? Like if you gave the EVA1 the LT look but not include other features, I think most people would be like, "Who cares...all I need is the look, those colors, those skin tones".

No disrespect to Mitch or Panasonic or anyone else, but I just don't see how and why this camera would look like a Varicam. I agree that it looks like a suped-up DVX200...so far.
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NorBro said:
Someone must have said this already but...the LT is $14,500. If the EVA1 looked like it, why would anyone buy the LT? Like if you gave the EVA1 the LT look but not include other features, I think most people would be like, "Who cares...all I need is the look, those colors, those skin tones".

No disrespect to Mitch or Panasonic or anyone else, but I just don't see how and why this camera would look like a Varicam. I agree that it looks like a suped-up DVX200...so far.
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My point exactly!
 
As this camera rests in the same price segment as Sony FS7 and Canon C200 I would expect similar performance. It would be foolish to expect Alexa performance or any other camera in that higher segment. So if someone tells you will get high end quality from a middle ground product would you believe that?
 
Sttratos said:
Ok. More down votes coming my way from the thin skinned people who can't take criticism about their cameras.

But if what you say is true, how come nobody could replicate the Alexa look yet? Even though it's clear that everybody both users and companies want to. Sony tried releasing LUTs for that without any success. Netflix has a LUT to try to make the Varicam look like the Alexa, without success. Users from different cameras have tried without success etc. It will only look 100% like the Varicam if it has the Varicam sensor. If it won't look 100% like it then it's a moot point bragging it will look like it. My point all along.
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Because it is almost impossible to reverse engineer a sensor from another company. In the case of the EVA1 and the Varicam we are talking the same company and the same set of engineers, project managers, testers, etc. I would sure hope they would know what they are doing.

Part of what makes the Alexa special is not just the sensor either but a lot of the other processing the camera does to interpret that data from the sensor.

My point is just because a sensor may be different doesn't mean the DSP is different as well. The sensor is only one component of the image pipeline.
 
NorBro said:
Someone must have said this already but...the LT is $14,500. If the EVA1 looked like it, why would anyone buy the LT? Like if you gave the EVA1 the LT look but not include other features, I think most people would be like, "Who cares...all I need is the look, those colors, those skin tones".

No disrespect to Mitch or Panasonic or anyone else, but I just don't see how and why this camera would look like a Varicam. I agree that it looks like a suped-up DVX200...so far.
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Access to extended hardware features have always made a huge cost difference between cameras. Those who want physical controls and switches will pay a premium to get it. It has also been stated numerous times that the Dual ISO is better on the Varicam. If one really needs to shoot in dark situations the Varicam will be well worth the extra cost.

Expensive cameras rarely justify their cost on just the look or image quality. Things like robustness, durability in extreme environments, quick access to physical controls and extended capability in low light are what you pay for with the Varicam. If all you care about is the look and image quality in good lighting then by all means forget about the Varicam. If a robust camera that can take a beating matters to you then you pay more for the Varicam because having a camera that will not fail in extreme conditions is worth the cost. A $500 APS-C DSLR can use the exact same sensor and DSP as a $2000 APS-C DSLR and yet people still buy the $2000 version because of the features and capabilities.

To be honest those who shoot with the Varicam don't give a darn what the cost is because it is 1% of the production budget.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Because it is almost impossible to reverse engineer a sensor from another company. In the case of the EVA1 and the Varicam we are talking the same company and the same set of engineers, project managers, testers, etc. I would sure hope they would know what they are doing.

Part of what makes the Alexa special is not just the sensor either but a lot of the other processing the camera does to interpret that data from the sensor.

My point is just because a sensor may be different doesn't mean the DSP is different as well. The sensor is only one component of the image pipeline.
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You bring up another thing that makes it even less likely it will match the Varicam.

Thomas Smet said:
Part of what makes the Alexa special is not just the sensor either but a lot of the other processing the camera does to interpret that data from the sensor.
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Besides not having Varicam sensor the EVA1 also doesn't have the body size. Smaller cameras have less processing power to process the data from the sensor. So EVA1 is in disadvantage here too to match the Varicams. But we will see soon enough. We can debate this for the whole month. But we will only know for sure once the camera is out. So far I agree with the others who said the footage doesn't look like Varicam much. But it's a prerelease model. We will see.
 
Sttratos said:
You bring up another thing that makes it even less likely it will match the Varicam.



Besides not having Varicam sensor the EVA1 also doesn't have the body size. Smaller cameras have less processing power to process the data from the sensor. So EVA1 is in disadvantage here too to match the Varicams. But we will see soon enough. We can debate this for the whole month. But we will only know for sure once the camera is out. So far I agree with the others who said the footage doesn't look like Varicam much. But it's a prerelease model. We will see.
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Care to provide any evidence of smaller cameras having less processing power? That may be true when talking about a body the size of a DSLR but the EVA1 is still a pretty decent size.

Kind of hard to say a camera doesn't have a certain look without any side by side comparisons. Everybody shoots and grades differently.
 
Thomas Smet said:
Expensive cameras rarely justify their cost on just the look or image quality.
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I absolutely agree. And I know you wrote more than the above quote, but that line sums up the entire industry for me.

Part of the reason the Blackmagics were so special in the early days is because they were literally half-broken boxes that did nothing but provide those RED and ALEXA-like images in their own way for unheard of prices.

Barely any controls, faulty HDMI/SDI inputs, weak audio, delicate, had various image problems (avoidable though)...I don't think they were cameras built for professional, "I depend on my camera", crews.

Their one and only goal was to provide cinematic images. They of course improved overtime through firmware updates and eventually evolved into the URSA Mini Pro.

I hear people say (write) it's a great time to be in the business and comment on all of the choices we have...but I don't think we've moved much in the past 5 years (and some of us had a similar conversation a few weeks ago).

Everyone is paying for hardware or something else, but not image quality.

I realized I'm not going to get both, so what I need is more of those half-broken boxes that produce cinematic images because I am really tired (in general) of overpriced cameras with mediocre image quality, ha.
 
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